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04-30-2013, 07:05 AM | #23 |
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Imran@Evolve wrote: "...I would check the lambda sensors are plugged in correctly and not damaged as we have seen this with header installs."
Did you investigate that? I'm about to install headers with an Evolve tune, so I'm hoping to learn from your troubleshooting. |
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04-30-2013, 12:15 PM | #24 |
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Yup
Mine fell flat on its face after 5k also People are telling me there's something wrong with my car, but I'm not sure thats the case. I'm back on OEM flash running 279 wheel on a dyno jet...nobody can tune this thing
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04-30-2013, 01:59 PM | #25 |
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Yeah, the O2 sensors looked okay but I'm going to recheck/replace them anyway. Sal seems to think it's a dme/tune issue since bad O2 sensors would cause other drivability problems. (Doesn't the car run open loop at WOT anyway?)
It's weird that even with the same tune, the difference pre and post headers is so dramatic. One theory the dyno guy brought up is that some headers can cause a pinging sound which the knock sensors pick up and misinterpret as pinging causing the dme to pull timing. Seems unlikely though since other M3 owners have reported solid results with the SGT headers.... |
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04-30-2013, 04:14 PM | #26 |
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I have no idea what's going on with my car and why I lost power on the evolve tune. I'm not ruling out the possibility that there's something wrong with my car (for the life of me and whoever has looked at my car - we can't figure it out), but I did lose power with the tune...and after reflashing back to OEM with autologic got my baseline back which was more.
On my most recent check up we did the vanos diagnostics. Opened up the vanos assembly and saw that my bolts were perfect, no vanos codes were being thrown, but after a couple rounds through of the diagnostics I failed the exhaust vanos test. No noises, but we're thinking this could have something (or everything) to do with me losing power on tunes which manipulate the maps. Somebody explained to me that the cams won't do what they're supposed to if some of the vanos tests fail. It's weird because it will pass and fail only sometimes. :/ mehhh
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04-30-2013, 07:12 PM | #27 |
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Drives: 2008 Z4MC
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05-01-2013, 09:09 PM | #29 |
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Ill look at digging them up. They're in the evolve group buy thread. On my phone right now.
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05-01-2013, 10:06 PM | #30 |
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Not sure if I get this correctly, but doesn't a bone stock Z4M put down 275whp ? What benefit are you getting with headers/exhaust and a tune (not speaking in general, but with your specific vehicle) if you aren't gaining anything significant?
Would it be worth while trying a pull with a stock ECU tune, but same updated hardware? EDIT: Just missed your response: Originally Posted by zubydafa I'm back on OEM flash running 279 wheel on a dyno jet. Evolve can't tune this thing
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05-02-2013, 06:56 AM | #32 |
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I need to get my car on a dyno, although I didn't get a baseline like I wanted to....but I can say I do not have any drop off on the top end
Those of you guys who run logs, what do you use?
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05-02-2013, 09:00 PM | #33 |
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Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. It was suggested that we log the IATs and timing but I'm not sure what software packages can do that....
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05-03-2013, 06:09 PM | #34 |
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Another Evolve failure, wake people the tune doesn't work!
If more of you actually put your car on the dyno you will see similar results.
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05-03-2013, 06:46 PM | #36 |
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You should try to get something that will let you check timing. There's only so many things that can effect power and that's a big one.
Your lower power graphs are very rough and that generally indicates that the timing is jumping around or you have poor combustion for some reason. Obviously you are monitoring AFRs, it would be nice if you had someone who could monitor the vanos phasing as well. If those things checked out I would move to "mechanical" stuff, but it looks like your most likely culprit is in the tune. Have you tried flashing the stock tune back in?
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05-08-2013, 06:28 AM | #37 |
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The MSS70 DME has 3 main ignition maps.
Which one it will use depends upon many factors such as environmental factors, knock count etc. This is probably one of the most sensitive DME's we have ever come across on an NA application and the dyno and road results can vary massively even on a stock car. We are well aware of this from many years ago. In order for us to make the cars perform on a dyno we have to monitor inlet air temperature, coolant temperatures etc very carefully. Inlet temperatures for example are solely reliant on how good the cooling system is on the dyno setup and if the operator waits for the temps to drop. You can have your stock car producing completely different graph shapes especially at the higher rpm's from one dyno session to the next. You will see a distinct dip in the power and many people think this is knock occurring. In fact this dip is caused by the safe ignition maps which have a huge dip in ignition timing in comparison to the optimal ignition map. Many people have also experienced the AFR's being very lean up to a certain point and then suddenly rich. For you to test these cars on a dyno you really need to data log. This is a setup which adapts massively and continuously. If any of you care to dig up graphs of these cars stock you will see the results all over the place. Often people think there is a problem with their engine or setup but this is not the case. You must understand, this is not an E46 M3 where the DME does not have this level of continual adaption. Education is required and we are more than happy to offer this. It will benefit those that will not even use our tuning also. |
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05-08-2013, 01:31 PM | #38 |
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edit: redacted because i shouldn't post when angry.
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05-08-2013, 04:21 PM | #39 |
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Sal shot me an email to say he's working on a updated tune that's more consistent. I'm annoyed by the loss of power and what seems like a tune that's not quite there, like it's really a beta release and we're the lucky beta testers that get to pay full price
I will say one thing though, I do think Sal knows what he's talking about and even the stock tune showed inconsistent dyno results. Here are four runs (pause between runs 2 and 3 to yank the air filter) on the stock tune and you can see they're all over the place with power and A/F. Or maybe my car is messed up |
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05-08-2013, 05:06 PM | #40 |
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FWIW, here are all the Evolve runs I've done. At 4500rpm with headers and Stage 2 Evolve tune I'm seeing a gain of ~16 ft/lbs at the wheels over stock which is pretty solid. Its frustrating that we can't get the tune stable above 5k rpm and carry that kind of power increase across the rpm range but the potential is so great that I'm hopeful Sal can sort this all out.
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05-08-2013, 06:55 PM | #41 |
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That's BS, you can run a stock car many times on the dyno and get nowhere near the variance the people in this thread are getting with your tune. It's clearly not calibrated well for cars with headers.
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05-08-2013, 08:45 PM | #42 |
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05-08-2013, 08:52 PM | #43 |
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Exactly, you can run the piss out of the S54 and it's extremely consistent, that's part of what makes it so great. The IAT thing is true as timing decay on OEM tunes is generally very aggressive, but fact is it's actually hard to truly heat soak an engine.
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05-08-2013, 08:58 PM | #44 |
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Agreed. I've dynoed dozens of vehicles in my past years of tuning, and in general have not seen stock vehicles vary by any more than 1%-3% run to run (obviously with forced induction, heat soak ends up exacerbating this, but most folks let the vehicle cool down a bit before the next pull).
Those breaks after the smooth torque buildup look very similar to an overly sensitive knock system, where it is dumping fuel (which is also evident by the AFR plot) and juggling timing to reduce knock. It may just be how BMW modeled the Z4M ecu, but those charts above show 8% in back to back runs without changing a thing, especially on the industry standard Dynojet rollers. Was this in 110degF weather?
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