4.10's are IN!

Starscream · 08-01-2009, 04:14 PM

Thanks to an awesome hookup from board member "tintboy" I fitted BMW Motorsport gears last night/today,

I did start a thread about it last night when the diff was out for the gear swap,
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287821

I was going to edit the title but this board seems to not allow it,

Sadly I didn't take photo's, Only of the actual differential and the gears, Nothing when installing to make a DIY thread,
But this really isn't what I'd call a bolt on anyway,
I did it alone with the car on jack stands, GOD do I wish I had a lift,
Lifting that diff was an absolute nightmare, I have some scrapes on my chest etc from being on my back lifting it,

And anyone who has ever done things like this (clutch jobs, transmission swaps) on their back you know what I'm talking about

But there you go proof it can be done without a lift

Its also very hard getting the diff in and out, there is NO room under there and it doesn't go straight up, Its sort of like a puzzle getting it back in,
Getting it out you have gravity helping you, Or trying to kill you whatever way you look at it,

Anyway you don't care about that, you guys want to know how it feels,

Well I'll tell you it feels good

Real good

It does seem sport mode is on all the time, Then when you actually do turn sport mode on 1st gear pull away's get a little jumpy and bouncy sometimes, But not all the time, I guess its almost like having to re-learn launches,
However saying that 1st gear is still very usable

, I was reading stories that 1st gear is useless and that just isn't so,

I think people put this mod of a pedestal and talk about it like its the best mod ever,
Id say its a definite improvement and it would be nice if this is what the car was like from the factory, but it doesn't transform your car suddenly into an F1 car like some people make it sound,

You can feel the car PULL hard, and it revs faster, Doing a highway entry (on an empty highway) and just flooring it and hit 8k in every gear you simply can't help but be impressed and notice a difference, and a big difference in lateral G force, The car is very fast through the gears and you hit a very high MPH quickly, Id say 0-60 is way down in the 4's, I heard it takes a nice chunk out of your 1/4 mile times too,
I'm sure I could slap a $100 bill to the dash and my passenger couldn't grab it

Around town its as I said before, Like sport mode is always on, much more responsive and much more "go", as soon as you hit 4K its simply and animal,
You obviously have to be in the right gear too, with the engine bogging around 1K rpm your not going to just suddenly slam the gas and be planted in the seat,

Overall its an awesome mod, Apart from the RPI scoop this is the only mod (so far) to my M and its thankfully a noticeable one,

Also to all the people on the fence of 3.91 and 4.10 gears, Might be a little bias it might seem but its 4.10 all the way,
Honestly for the amount of money your going to pay for 3.91 gears and labor putting it in (if you can't do it yourself) its just not worth it,
Even if you could put it in yourself the cost just isn't justified,
I don't think these 4.10's justify the cost either, Its a very pricey swap for something that costs $149 from Ford Racing for Mustangs and after physically seeing the gears you get the same thing from BMW at nearly 10 times the price,

People on the fence, Ive just pushed you over the fence to 4.10's,
Just get them!

I do have a few misc pics of the open diff and there might be tech heads like myself that would love a peek inside so I'll try to get them up today

(oh and be prepared to have your jaw drop when you see how much this SAF-XJ oil is from BMW)

ZStig · 08-01-2009, 04:54 PM

cool

O-cha · 08-01-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

(oh and be prepared to have your jaw drop when you see how much this SAF-XJ oil is from BMW)

Yea the stuff with the additive is like 150.

You don't NEED that though it's only for cars that exhibit a grinding noise.

mimsterzx7r · 08-01-2009, 05:33 PM

Wow, great review Starscream. Are you experiencing any of the whine that other people have noticed with this mod?

Starscream · 08-01-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-cha

Yea the stuff with the additive is like 150.

You don't NEED that though it's only for cars that exhibit a grinding noise.

Thanks for affirming that,
I did search around, the part number I came up with as OEM fluid for a Z4M is the SAF-XJ,

However on the M3 boards I find a different part number for the SAF-XJ + FM Booster,
and exactly as you said, for diffs that make noise BMW adds this,
The part number I used was 83221467993
But the +FM is 83222282583 (for people looking)

Used a little over 2 liters but I bought 2.5 Liters, You could easily get away with 2 liters,
and the diff was obviously totally dry with the cover off,

If I experience any whine (and to answer mimster's question) I will replace with the SAF-XJ +FM,
As of now, and I did a few highway runs, The Diff is silent with the new oil,
But, I do have a roadster and the top was down the whole time I was driving, Obviously wind noise (and that amazing quad exhaust noise) took over, Around town it was silent
I guess winter when I drive with the top up I'll see if I can hear anything but from today its silent,

mpower03 · 08-01-2009, 06:49 PM

that whining noise comes from the gears not being properly installed. either they are too tight or too loose but i believe it is if they are to tight.

krnnerdboy · 08-01-2009, 07:16 PM

I would definitely do this first over FI! I swapped my tires from a 255/40 to a 255/35 dropping my overall FD to about a 3.81 over the 3.72 and even that was very noticeable!

kudos for installing it yourself!!

Starscream · 08-01-2009, 08:27 PM

I really do think this is going to unlock my unwillingness to mod the M,
I was pretty much set on factory stock, but now I am thinking a ESS tune and those headers that seem to be a bargain deal from ebay,

Also for those wondering about rev differences, Around town I'm not noticing that much difference, and on the highway 80MPH is pretty much dead on 3.5k Revs,
These cars wasn't exactly designed to be economical anyway so any difference in MPG isn't an issue to me,

I have read some people see 1-2 MPG less, and I have also read some people actually are seeing 1-2 MPG more than stock,

Starscream · 08-01-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krnnerdboy

kudos for installing it yourself!!

Thanks,
I didn't even have an assistant to put the car in and out of gear so I could unbolt the drive shaft and output shafts,
But I managed to get 3 of the 6 bolts out at a time so it was only a few trips out from under the car to the gear knob, I guess this is another good reason to have the roadster as I left the top down and could just reach in and move the gear stick

Starscream · 08-02-2009, 03:46 PM

Ok a few pictures,

Actually looking at the pictures makes me realize how crap the pictures were I took,
I was just in a hurry to get this all done rather than take pics,

This is the Diff itself out, kinda dirty actually, I cleaned it all up before putting it back,

This is the diff open with the 4.10's inside,

Closeup of the markings on the 4.10's
Little weird that these were the only markings on the ring, The gears that came out did have a "3.62" mark on them, and the pinion also had a 3.62 marking on them,
Weird,

Closeup of the BMW LSD carrier,

The oil that came out of the diff, Only had 6000 miles on it!

and a comparison of the oil that came out and fresh SAF-XJ oil

Now some might wonder why do I have oil in pots?
Well the answer would be that anything I do to my BMW's fluid I always send the oil to Castrol to analyze it,
I send it direct to Castrols lab (www.labcheckonline.com) and the reason I have 2 old oil samples is just in case something happens to the original, or the oil comes back dirty (contaminated) and they need a re-sample,
So far thats never happened so I have a shelf in the garage with loads of old samples from previous cars and the ones I have now, Little obsessive but that's how I like to be,
The new oil sample is just for comparison to the used, But wow that fluid got dark in 6000 miles!
Id be interested to see the analysis when it comes back

Anyway, Yes the pictures are not very good, But at least its something!

mimsterzx7r · 08-02-2009, 04:39 PM

Dude you actually changed out the gears yourself!

I thought you just exchanged the pumpkin out. Very impressive, how long did the whole process take? I was told by a local shop that you need a special tool to take the diff apart so they recommended a core exchange.

Starscream · 08-03-2009, 03:30 PM

Just to add guys if anyone is looking for a set in stock hit up Evan at Tischer and tell him I sent you

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462

I talked to Evan today an these are in stock and waiting to ship

Just a little plug

Don't forget the SAF-XJ fluid!

Starscream · 08-03-2009, 04:43 PM

I also think I have some insight to color difference in the oil

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14456

fatmatt0116 · 08-27-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

Just to add guys if anyone is looking for a set in stock hit up Evan at Tischer and tell him I sent you

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462

I talked to Evan today an these are in stock and waiting to ship

Just a little plug

Don't forget the SAF-XJ fluid!

wow, $850 is an amazing price given the cost of the Dinan 4.10s ($2700!). I guess there is no core charge given that you are only buying the gear. Definitely going to be my next mod after 3rd quarter taxes are paid.

BTW, I would definitely spring for the headers.

hammerhead · 08-30-2009, 01:10 PM

Starscream,

Nice work! I take it from what you said about the mods that you haven't done the CDV delete or mod yet?

Phillarius · 09-05-2009, 01:21 PM

Hello,

I hear a noise from the diff when I'm not giving gas. From the moment I let off the gaspedal I hear a whining noise from behind and when I push the gas pedal the noise stops.

I changed the diff oil already with wintershall oil. But the noise is still there, it is not that loud but I hear it when my windows are closed.

I still have my stock diff..

Starscream · 09-05-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerhead

Starscream,

Nice work! I take it from what you said about the mods that you haven't done the CDV delete or mod yet?

Yes that was the first mod a few days after delivery along with axxis pads,

Starscream · 09-05-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillarius

Hello,

I hear a noise from the diff when I'm not giving gas. From the moment I let off the gaspedal I hear a whining noise from behind and when I push the gas pedal the noise stops.

I changed the diff oil already with wintershall oil. But the noise is still there, it is not that loud but I hear it when my windows are closed.

I still have my stock diff..

When you hit the gas the drivetrain is underload and noises "usually" only happen when you have let off,
Sounds like the backlash wasn't set correctly but if this is factory untouched gears id get it to the dealer,
But changing oil to non OEM might cause a problem,have you tried SAF-XJ + FM booster?

Phillarius · 09-06-2009, 05:39 AM

Yo, thanks for the reply

Witershall oil is used in race cars, it can stand more heat, and at the bmw dealer they use it now also in all M models sow I think it isn't doing any damage.

I called my local bmw dealer and they searched for the FM booster but they never heart off it !!!

Is there something I have to mention so they can order that??

Thanks

Starscream · 09-06-2009, 09:52 AM

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462

Its BMW OEM fluid

hammerhead · 09-09-2009, 05:22 PM

Starscream,
Thanks for your reply - did you notice better shifts after CDV mod?

Starscream · 09-09-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerhead

Starscream,
Thanks for your reply - did you notice better shifts after CDV mod?

Yes, Easier and better pedal feel,
I only had the car a few days before, But that combined with the long rubbery shift knob was not the best idea from BMW for an "M" car,

The shifter in my 3.0 Z4 had a better feel than the stock M shift knob,

a "Starscream special" custom made lighted ZHP shift knob soon sorted that lol

But yes CDV is an awesome mod, people hype it up a lot, and people hype up these 4.10's a lot,

Don't get me wrong I love both but people on forums set the bar way to high for these mods,
Thats what I'm worried about when I am thinking of the ESS tune,
I want it, and heard so much great stuff, but I don't want to be deflated and only notice a small difference,

08-01-2009, 04:14 PM	#1
Starscream Colonel 135 Rep 2,120 Posts Drives: ///M Roadster + E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Park Ridge NJ + Windermere FL iTrader: (23)	4.10's are IN! Thanks to an awesome hookup from board member "tintboy" I fitted BMW Motorsport gears last night/today, I did start a thread about it last night when the diff was out for the gear swap, http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287821 I was going to edit the title but this board seems to not allow it, Sadly I didn't take photo's, Only of the actual differential and the gears, Nothing when installing to make a DIY thread, But this really isn't what I'd call a bolt on anyway, I did it alone with the car on jack stands, GOD do I wish I had a lift, Lifting that diff was an absolute nightmare, I have some scrapes on my chest etc from being on my back lifting it, And anyone who has ever done things like this (clutch jobs, transmission swaps) on their back you know what I'm talking about But there you go proof it can be done without a lift Its also very hard getting the diff in and out, there is NO room under there and it doesn't go straight up, Its sort of like a puzzle getting it back in, Getting it out you have gravity helping you, Or trying to kill you whatever way you look at it, Anyway you don't care about that, you guys want to know how it feels, Well I'll tell you it feels good Real good It does seem sport mode is on all the time, Then when you actually do turn sport mode on 1st gear pull away's get a little jumpy and bouncy sometimes, But not all the time, I guess its almost like having to re-learn launches, However saying that 1st gear is still very usable , I was reading stories that 1st gear is useless and that just isn't so, I think people put this mod of a pedestal and talk about it like its the best mod ever, Id say its a definite improvement and it would be nice if this is what the car was like from the factory, but it doesn't transform your car suddenly into an F1 car like some people make it sound, You can feel the car PULL hard, and it revs faster, Doing a highway entry (on an empty highway) and just flooring it and hit 8k in every gear you simply can't help but be impressed and notice a difference, and a big difference in lateral G force, The car is very fast through the gears and you hit a very high MPH quickly, Id say 0-60 is way down in the 4's, I heard it takes a nice chunk out of your 1/4 mile times too, I'm sure I could slap a $100 bill to the dash and my passenger couldn't grab it Around town its as I said before, Like sport mode is always on, much more responsive and much more "go", as soon as you hit 4K its simply and animal, You obviously have to be in the right gear too, with the engine bogging around 1K rpm your not going to just suddenly slam the gas and be planted in the seat, Overall its an awesome mod, Apart from the RPI scoop this is the only mod (so far) to my M and its thankfully a noticeable one, Also to all the people on the fence of 3.91 and 4.10 gears, Might be a little bias it might seem but its 4.10 all the way, Honestly for the amount of money your going to pay for 3.91 gears and labor putting it in (if you can't do it yourself) its just not worth it, Even if you could put it in yourself the cost just isn't justified, I don't think these 4.10's justify the cost either, Its a very pricey swap for something that costs $149 from Ford Racing for Mustangs and after physically seeing the gears you get the same thing from BMW at nearly 10 times the price, People on the fence, Ive just pushed you over the fence to 4.10's, Just get them! I do have a few misc pics of the open diff and there might be tech heads like myself that would love a peek inside so I'll try to get them up today (oh and be prepared to have your jaw drop when you see how much this SAF-XJ oil is from BMW) __________________ Imola Red Roadster
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08-01-2009, 04:54 PM	#2
ZStig instagram 997turbotom 279 Rep 7,377 Posts Drives: Interlagos Z4MR Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL iTrader: (4)	cool __________________
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08-01-2009, 05:33 PM	#4
mimsterzx7r Private First Class 5 Rep 161 Posts Drives: 07 M Roadster, 03 Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (0)	Wow, great review Starscream. Are you experiencing any of the whine that other people have noticed with this mod? __________________ ZHP knob/Zeckhausen CDV/ESS Tune/More to come
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08-01-2009, 06:49 PM	#6
mpower03 Captain 39 Rep 962 Posts Drives: 08 z4 M Coupe Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: FL iTrader: (2)	that whining noise comes from the gears not being properly installed. either they are too tight or too loose but i believe it is if they are to tight. __________________
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08-01-2009, 07:16 PM	#7
krnnerdboy Colonel 190 Rep 2,431 Posts Drives: v10 m6 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: so cal iTrader: (10)	I would definitely do this first over FI! I swapped my tires from a 255/40 to a 255/35 dropping my overall FD to about a 3.81 over the 3.72 and even that was very noticeable! kudos for installing it yourself!! __________________ F80 m3, 997 gt3, 14 ram ctd, f15 x5, drz400sm Gone:z4m, boss 302, c6 z06, m6,z3m
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08-01-2009, 08:27 PM	#8
Starscream Colonel 135 Rep 2,120 Posts Drives: ///M Roadster + E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Park Ridge NJ + Windermere FL iTrader: (23)	I really do think this is going to unlock my unwillingness to mod the M, I was pretty much set on factory stock, but now I am thinking a ESS tune and those headers that seem to be a bargain deal from ebay, Also for those wondering about rev differences, Around town I'm not noticing that much difference, and on the highway 80MPH is pretty much dead on 3.5k Revs, These cars wasn't exactly designed to be economical anyway so any difference in MPG isn't an issue to me, I have read some people see 1-2 MPG less, and I have also read some people actually are seeing 1-2 MPG more than stock, __________________ Imola Red Roadster
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08-02-2009, 03:46 PM	#10
Starscream Colonel 135 Rep 2,120 Posts Drives: ///M Roadster + E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Park Ridge NJ + Windermere FL iTrader: (23)	Ok a few pictures, Actually looking at the pictures makes me realize how crap the pictures were I took, I was just in a hurry to get this all done rather than take pics, This is the Diff itself out, kinda dirty actually, I cleaned it all up before putting it back, This is the diff open with the 4.10's inside, Closeup of the markings on the 4.10's Little weird that these were the only markings on the ring, The gears that came out did have a "3.62" mark on them, and the pinion also had a 3.62 marking on them, Weird, Closeup of the BMW LSD carrier, The oil that came out of the diff, Only had 6000 miles on it! and a comparison of the oil that came out and fresh SAF-XJ oil Now some might wonder why do I have oil in pots? Well the answer would be that anything I do to my BMW's fluid I always send the oil to Castrol to analyze it, I send it direct to Castrols lab (www.labcheckonline.com) and the reason I have 2 old oil samples is just in case something happens to the original, or the oil comes back dirty (contaminated) and they need a re-sample, So far thats never happened so I have a shelf in the garage with loads of old samples from previous cars and the ones I have now, Little obsessive but that's how I like to be, The new oil sample is just for comparison to the used, But wow that fluid got dark in 6000 miles! Id be interested to see the analysis when it comes back Anyway, Yes the pictures are not very good, But at least its something! __________________ Imola Red Roadster
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08-02-2009, 04:39 PM	#11
mimsterzx7r Private First Class 5 Rep 161 Posts Drives: 07 M Roadster, 03 Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (0)	Dude you actually changed out the gears yourself! I thought you just exchanged the pumpkin out. Very impressive, how long did the whole process take? I was told by a local shop that you need a special tool to take the diff apart so they recommended a core exchange. __________________ ZHP knob/Zeckhausen CDV/ESS Tune/More to come
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08-03-2009, 03:30 PM	#12
Starscream Colonel 135 Rep 2,120 Posts Drives: ///M Roadster + E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Park Ridge NJ + Windermere FL iTrader: (23)	Just to add guys if anyone is looking for a set in stock hit up Evan at Tischer and tell him I sent you http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462 I talked to Evan today an these are in stock and waiting to ship Just a little plug Don't forget the SAF-XJ fluid! __________________ Imola Red Roadster
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08-03-2009, 04:43 PM	#13
Starscream Colonel 135 Rep 2,120 Posts Drives: ///M Roadster + E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Park Ridge NJ + Windermere FL iTrader: (23)	I also think I have some insight to color difference in the oil http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14456 __________________ Imola Red Roadster
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08-30-2009, 01:10 PM	#15
hammerhead Private 2 Rep 67 Posts Drives: Z4MR Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Midwest iTrader: (0)	Starscream, Nice work! I take it from what you said about the mods that you haven't done the CDV delete or mod yet?
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09-05-2009, 01:21 PM	#16
Phillarius New Member 0 Rep 8 Posts Drives: Z4MC Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Belgium iTrader: (0)	Hello, I hear a noise from the diff when I'm not giving gas. From the moment I let off the gaspedal I hear a whining noise from behind and when I push the gas pedal the noise stops. I changed the diff oil already with wintershall oil. But the noise is still there, it is not that loud but I hear it when my windows are closed. I still have my stock diff..
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09-06-2009, 05:39 AM	#19
Phillarius New Member 0 Rep 8 Posts Drives: Z4MC Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Belgium iTrader: (0)	Yo, thanks for the reply Witershall oil is used in race cars, it can stand more heat, and at the bmw dealer they use it now also in all M models sow I think it isn't doing any damage. I called my local bmw dealer and they searched for the FM booster but they never heart off it !!! Is there something I have to mention so they can order that?? Thanks
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09-06-2009, 09:52 AM	#20
Starscream Colonel 135 Rep 2,120 Posts Drives: ///M Roadster + E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Park Ridge NJ + Windermere FL iTrader: (23)	http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462 Its BMW OEM fluid __________________ Imola Red Roadster
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09-09-2009, 05:22 PM	#21
hammerhead Private 2 Rep 67 Posts Drives: Z4MR Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Midwest iTrader: (0)	Starscream, Thanks for your reply - did you notice better shifts after CDV mod?
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