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      10-16-2016, 08:37 AM   #1
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S54 blown...replace or C5Z06

There I was off the coast of Madagascar on the Road to Hell 7.4 mile race loop...the 911 RS was in the lead, followed closely by a GT3, a C6Z06, me in the Z4M, and a M3 in tow (it was prepped, maybe 2,800 lbs). 7 laps...no one had changed place. Turn 8 on the 8th lap and "poof", no power and check engine light.

Yes, I spun a bearing. Engine is now toast. It wasn't the Madagascar race course, but rather Summit Main...about the same experience. Thinking about sending the whole car to California for a Lange rebuild. I put 30 or so track days this year on the Z, it was beat on pretty hard. I probably should have already replace the bearings, but I figured I would use the winter for the maintenance....just didn't make it.

So blown engine at least has me thinking. Lange rebuild is +$12k. I've considered just buying another Z4M and scavenging the engine and keeping it as a parts car...that's $20-$25k. My wife will kill me if I have another car in the front. But then a 2003 C5Z06 cropped up with 18k miles for $20k...interesting option.

I don't know if we BMW fanboys give the corvette it's due, but it has me thinking. I could find a used S54, have the bearings done, and install it for $8-$10. Or I could add $10k and get the C5.

Any thoughts? Anyone have a spare S54?
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      10-16-2016, 11:05 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan13
There I was off the coast of Madagascar on the Road to Hell 7.4 mile race loop...the 911 RS was in the lead, followed closely by a GT3, a C6Z06, me in the Z4M, and a M3 in tow (it was prepped, maybe 2,800 lbs). 7 laps...no one had changed place. Turn 8 on the 8th lap and "poof", no power and check engine light.

Yes, I spun a bearing. Engine is now toast. It wasn't the Madagascar race course, but rather Summit Main...about the same experience. Thinking about sending the whole car to California for a Lange rebuild. I put 30 or so track days this year on the Z, it was beat on pretty hard. I probably should have already replace the bearings, but I figured I would use the winter for the maintenance....just didn't make it.

So blown engine at least has me thinking. Lange rebuild is +$12k. I've considered just buying another Z4M and scavenging the engine and keeping it as a parts car...that's $20-$25k. My wife will kill me if I have another car in the front. But then a 2003 C5Z06 cropped up with 18k miles for $20k...interesting option.

I don't know if we BMW fanboys give the corvette it's due, but it has me thinking. I could find a used S54, have the bearings done, and install it for $8-$10. Or I could add $10k and get the C5.

Any thoughts? Anyone have a spare S54?
I was in the same boat and went with Andrew for a rebuild , couldn't be happier . A well prepped Z4M is a special car and fast as hell . I think you would be upset with yourself if you sold it .
George
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      10-29-2016, 06:33 AM   #3
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New engine going in. Found one with a 2-year warranty, 50k miles. It wasn't cheap, but I really like the Z platform for the track. I'm turning 1.24 - 1.25 consistently on Summit Main and I think I can still find another second or so around turns 6, 7 and 8...it's a little hairy if you overcook turn 9.

Anyone run Dominion yet? The walls certainly seem close. Was behind a guy in a RS32 that just went straight up the bank by the bridge. Evidently there is a ditch just a few yards off the track and he cracked the frame. I don't have the guts to take turn 1 properly yet...but it's a fast one.
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      10-29-2016, 10:55 AM   #4
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Great news Glad to hear you're keeping the Z.

Can you sell your old engine (for someone else to do a rebuild) to recoupe some of the cost?
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      10-31-2016, 10:25 AM   #5
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There is a core charge of $500 from the supplier. While I'm not concerned about the $500, I'm worried that I may have contaminated the engine with metal beyond resuscitation.

Im having it cracked open to see just how bad it might be, check the various filters to see how much metal. It makes no sense to put 10-15 into a rebuild and have it fail out the gate due to some oil channel being clogged. Maybe a good builder plans for all that. I'll come back with a few pictures after they open it up.

Honestly, I would love to send it off to Lang, or someone, and build up a stroker and thus have a 2nd engine. I was never going to leave the platform as I still have the convertible with only 11k miles...but the C5 price/performance ratio is hard to beat. With all the spare stuff I have for the Z, it made sense to stick with it. With the 2 year warranty on the replacement engine, I feel a little better going this route than a 2004 C5 with unknown history.
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      10-31-2016, 12:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan13 View Post
There is a core charge of $500 from the supplier. While I'm not concerned about the $500, I'm worried that I may have contaminated the engine with metal beyond resuscitation.

Im having it cracked open to see just how bad it might be, check the various filters to see how much metal. It makes no sense to put 10-15 into a rebuild and have it fail out the gate due to some oil channel being clogged. Maybe a good builder plans for all that. I'll come back with a few pictures after they open it up.

Honestly, I would love to send it off to Lang, or someone, and build up a stroker and thus have a 2nd engine. I was never going to leave the platform as I still have the convertible with only 11k miles...but the C5 price/performance ratio is hard to beat. With all the spare stuff I have for the Z, it made sense to stick with it. With the 2 year warranty on the replacement engine, I feel a little better going this route than a 2004 C5 with unknown history.
I highly recommend Andrew Lang , he did an outstanding job for me on my motor build .
George
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      10-31-2016, 01:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan13 View Post
There is a core charge of $500 from the supplier. While I'm not concerned about the $500, I'm worried that I may have contaminated the engine with metal beyond resuscitation.

Im having it cracked open to see just how bad it might be, check the various filters to see how much metal.
If you really did simply spin a bearing, there isn't a bucket of shavings floating around your motor.
I've building motors for a very long time. I've built & rebuilt quite a few that have seen various levels of mechanical demise.

I'm confident your engine builder will thoroughly clean the block and galleys.
I would have ZERO worries about tossing money into it.
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      10-31-2016, 01:53 PM   #8
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and BTW - you would have regretted trying to track the C5.
Our C6Z06 is brutal. Of course, I also ride a Ducati 999S, so maybe I just like wrestling with gorillas.
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      11-04-2016, 02:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan13 View Post
There is a core charge of $500 from the supplier. While I'm not concerned about the $500, I'm worried that I may have contaminated the engine with metal beyond resuscitation.

Im having it cracked open to see just how bad it might be, check the various filters to see how much metal. It makes no sense to put 10-15 into a rebuild and have it fail out the gate due to some oil channel being clogged. Maybe a good builder plans for all that. I'll come back with a few pictures after they open it up.

Honestly, I would love to send it off to Lang, or someone, and build up a stroker and thus have a 2nd engine. I was never going to leave the platform as I still have the convertible with only 11k miles...but the C5 price/performance ratio is hard to beat. With all the spare stuff I have for the Z, it made sense to stick with it. With the 2 year warranty on the replacement engine, I feel a little better going this route than a 2004 C5 with unknown history.
I ran dominion last week. I was worried about walls but they have pushed them back. It's not hairy at all! Doubt you will be out at summit in 2 weeks?

What blower do you run? I'm surprised I haven't seen you at summit this year? I stick with NASA events though!
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      11-04-2016, 11:22 PM   #10
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LANG. And spinning a bearing is not a blown engine till the rod goes through the block. New bottom end is also not too much money.

S14, s52, and s54's have had problems when pushed hard on the track. Lang's work will minimize this.
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      11-06-2016, 05:58 AM   #11
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We could probably start another thread to discuss Dominion, but I didn't know they moved the walls back. My first couple of laps on the track, I thought about them, but then I picked a different line between 2-3...I don't move track left, I go "more straight" across the arc, the walls are never in play. I wasn't worried about hitting them, just picking a better line. My guess is if they moved the walls, it wasn't for cars...it is to get the motorcycle guys. Couple of motorcycle friends said no way to current configuration.

Also worked on the big sweeper on turn 5, I did not like the off-camber exit...so I started inside, swing out, and try to apex about 3 quarters way thru so I can come out on-camber. Did you notice that the curbing on almost the entire track is nowhere where it should be? Perhaps if the run is clockwise vs counter clockwise, they may make sense.

Summit...I go there with anyone that will let me run with them. Was there the last 2 days with metro NY Porshe club...my wife and I doubled in the 128i. Chin, TracDaze, BMW, Porshe, Audi...been with every one of them. NASA is there this weekend coming, if I have the car back, I'll be there.

The oil was full of metal bits. Engine is out of the car, just waiting on the replacement to arrive. No holes in the block, so maybe it can be saved.
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      11-06-2016, 10:43 PM   #12
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Man, was sad to read that first post, but then you upped the game by getting a new engine, which is AWESOME!!!
Can't wait to hear more about how it turns out.

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      11-07-2016, 07:47 AM   #13
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Where did you get the new engine and care to say roughly how much total this problem will cost you? I am interested in knowing worst case scenario with this engine and getting a new one with a two year warranty seems like a good solution to what happened.

There's another thread here where a rebuild didn't work out at all and I hope I never end up with either problem but it wouldn't hurt to have some plan of action if it does.
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      11-08-2016, 08:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedOctober View Post
and BTW - you would have regretted trying to track the C5.
Our C6Z06 is brutal. Of course, I also ride a Ducati 999S, so maybe I just like wrestling with gorillas.
^This^ The C5's eat up stock configuration rear rotors like you wouldn't believe. Most everyone I know that's tracked their C5 has wound up buying an after market rear brake set to ensure they made it through all the sessions on a given track day.
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      11-18-2016, 06:49 PM   #15
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The new-used engine came from California, I'm not certain the shop it came from, hope to find out in the next few days. It was expected to arrive today. The cost was $5,500 for a complete engine with 52k miles. de-install and install looks to be about $4k. I'm adding new radiator, oil cooler, clutch, flywheel, engine shims...most of this for just parts money.

I haven't seen the document yet, but I'm told the engine has a 2-year warranty.

There was metal (like a lot) in the oil of the existing engine when it was drained. I'm not giving it good hope. There is a $500 core charge on the engine from the supplier, I'm not certain they are getting the better end of the deal. I could be wrong, maybe one of the blocks could salvaged. What little skills I have, engine rehab is not one of them.

$10k +-$1k is probably the magic number for a used engine and labor. You should add another $3k for ancillary replacements (clutch, radiator, etc.). I read a few of those horror stories, and I really thought about all the options. There were a few different engines with various miles and stated warranties....the prices all seemed about the same. So I really just went with the best warranty. I think 2 years is pretty good actually.

I'm still considering sending this engine to Lang. It is going to California for the return trip, may as well detour to Lang and see if it is worth more than $500. It's going to cost another $10-$13k, but I would have a second engine. Honestly, this is worse than my boat thing.
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      11-21-2016, 01:54 AM   #16
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You would probably get more money than 500$ selling your old engine yourself.
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      02-06-2017, 09:41 PM   #17
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Car is up and running. New-er engine with 10,000 miles installed. There was a problem with the first engine purchased, as in it was dropped by the carrier. Second engine came out of a split-in-half Z4M up around Rhode Island somewhere. The story was a telephone pole split the car in half. I purchased engine and transmission.

Put about 700 miles on the car and no issues. Registered for BMW club racing school in May out at Summit Point, but will do a couple days with Audi and Porsche clubs at VIR first.
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      02-27-2017, 03:51 PM   #18
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Sorry if it's a stupid question but how to prevent this from happening to my engine? I'm driving a Z4MR with 36000km. Had it for the past 16 000km, did 4 oil changes already, always check oil etc, don't track the car too often (just twice by far). Is this even something to worry about right now and if not - then when? I just don't have the cash to buy a new engine if shit goes wrong so I want to do my best to avoid it. Thanks.
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      02-27-2017, 10:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Car is up and running. New-er engine with 10,000 miles installed. There was a problem with the first engine purchased, as in it was dropped by the carrier. Second engine came out of a split-in-half Z4M up around Rhode Island somewhere. The story was a telephone pole split the car in half. I purchased engine and transmission.

Put about 700 miles on the car and no issues. Registered for BMW club racing school in May out at Summit Point, but will do a couple days with Audi and Porsche clubs at VIR first.
Hmm may see you out at all three events!
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      02-27-2017, 11:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan13 View Post
The new-used engine came from California, I'm not certain the shop it came from, hope to find out in the next few days. It was expected to arrive today. The cost was $5,500 for a complete engine with 52k miles. de-install and install looks to be about $4k. I'm adding new radiator, oil cooler, clutch, flywheel, engine shims...most of this for just parts money.

I haven't seen the document yet, but I'm told the engine has a 2-year warranty.

There was metal (like a lot) in the oil of the existing engine when it was drained. I'm not giving it good hope. There is a $500 core charge on the engine from the supplier, I'm not certain they are getting the better end of the deal. I could be wrong, maybe one of the blocks could salvaged. What little skills I have, engine rehab is not one of them.

$10k +-$1k is probably the magic number for a used engine and labor. You should add another $3k for ancillary replacements (clutch, radiator, etc.). I read a few of those horror stories, and I really thought about all the options. There were a few different engines with various miles and stated warranties....the prices all seemed about the same. So I really just went with the best warranty. I think 2 years is pretty good actually.

I'm still considering sending this engine to Lang. It is going to California for the return trip, may as well detour to Lang and see if it is worth more than $500. It's going to cost another $10-$13k, but I would have a second engine. Honestly, this is worse than my boat thing.
Fwiw Lang has done a lot of work on my own cars and several friend's BMWs. He does fantastic work and holds a great reputation in OC.
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      02-28-2017, 01:06 AM   #21
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Quote:
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I just don't have the cash to buy a new engine if shit goes wrong so I want to do my best to avoid it. Thanks.
Change the rodbearings every 80k km / 50k miles. That seems to be the common advice most s50/s54 specialists say in europe.
The more you track it, the more often change those bearings.
Should be pretty cheap in Bulgaria as labour is the main cost.
Parts (rodbearings+gaskets+rodbolts etc) is probably around €250-€300 of ebay.
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