ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-16-2013, 01:19 AM   #1
pcoppala
New Member
4
Rep
13
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

[Z4M] Blackstone Oil Report --2nd High Lead

I received my second Blackstone oil report last week. I was concerned about elevated lead on my first reading, and the second reading also came back with high lead. I know Lead + Copper generally indicates bearing wear. But I have elevated lead and iron readings. So I've turned to ZPOST for some help.

I've owned the car since January '12 with only 24k miles. There's about 32k on the vehicle now. I have BMW service records until when the car was sold to me at which time I performed my own maintenance. I've read that using Techron can cause higher lead readings, but I've never used any fuel injector cleaner in my car. I occasionally drive spirited, but only after the car is fully warmed up. No track days.

Any ideas? Should I be looking forward to bearing replacement?


Appreciate 0
      06-16-2013, 04:48 PM   #2
Kgolf31
Brigadier General
Kgolf31's Avatar
459
Rep
4,531
Posts

Drives: 2007 Z4MC, 2012 128i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (4)

6k miles might be too high.

I changed my first oil at 5k-ish and got around those numbers (21ppm Iron and 14ppm Lead)

Did it this time at 2800 mikes and sitting at 11ppm Iron and 8ppm Lead


Mine is heavily autocrossed and track.
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2013, 06:21 AM   #3
kennyfrc
First Lieutenant
kennyfrc's Avatar
18
Rep
376
Posts

Drives: 2008 Z4MC
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: ATL GA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcoppala View Post
I received my second Blackstone oil report last week. I was concerned about elevated lead on my first reading, and the second reading also came back with high lead. I know Lead + Copper generally indicates bearing wear. But I have elevated lead and iron readings. So I've turned to ZPOST for some help.

I've owned the car since January '12 with only 24k miles. There's about 32k on the vehicle now. I have BMW service records until when the car was sold to me at which time I performed my own maintenance. I've read that using Techron can cause higher lead readings, but I've never used any fuel injector cleaner in my car. I occasionally drive spirited, but only after the car is fully warmed up. No track days.

Any ideas? Should I be looking forward to bearing replacement?



That is very high lead, change the rod bearings or get rid of the car. If you do some research you will find major engine failures associcated with lead reading that high.
__________________
Toy: 2008 Silver Z4MC 300WHP/241TQ

Mods: OEM Euro Headers, RPI Scoop

Daily: 2010 Tacoma Double Cab
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2013, 06:30 AM   #4
GriffBrew
Second Lieutenant
United_States
5
Rep
234
Posts

Drives: 2006 M Roadster
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
6k miles might be too high.

I changed my first oil at 5k-ish and got around those numbers (21ppm Iron and 14ppm Lead)

Did it this time at 2800 mikes and sitting at 11ppm Iron and 8ppm Lead


Mine is heavily autocrossed and track.
I recall reading Blackstone reports where they (Blackstone) commented that lead levels were down by raw number, but given lower miles on the oil, they said that makes sense. It takes time for the shearing to occur enough to produce elevated levels. Edit: just read the report posted here and Blackstone stated this fact regarding miles here too.

OP, I'd read back through the old threads regarding correlation of lead values and other metals being an indicator, not just elevated lead alone.
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2013, 09:59 AM   #5
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

We have seen cars with rod bearing failure at your mileage so I would take these reports very seriously. The problem is once the bearings have been damaged, this begets more damage. Changing the oil more frequently will not prevent this from accelerating.I had similar values with my bearings , almost at the failure point. All S54's need there bearings replaced at some point , some at 30,000 miles some at 80,000 depending on use . Just because you are easy on the car doesn't mean the previous owner was. Did they redline it cold frequently, let run low on oil, not change the oil for 15,000 miles? You have objective data that there is elevated bearing wear despite no hard usage pattern. This makes your levels more concerning than someone who tracks their car. If you plan on keeping your car long term its time to change bearings IMHO.
George
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2013, 03:58 PM   #6
mousitch
Dark Sider
mousitch's Avatar
127
Rep
1,777
Posts

Drives: 2008 Space Gray Z4MC
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2008 Z4M Coupe  [7.50]
Change the bearings or let it blow. You'll know its getting bad when you hear it knocking and then time to worry. If it was me and I couldn't get bearing/crank work done for under $3500 id drive it till it died and pick up a used S54. But thats just me. LOL. Called around here for estimates and they were crazy. Just for piece of mind at later mileage.
__________________
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/153/071jt.jpg/]
2008 Space Grey M Coupe-RPI Scoop-Gruppe M CAI-Eisenmann Race Cans-RE X-pipe-ECU Remap-H&R Sport springs-Zeck CDV delete-Stock Gloss black powder coated wheels-LED Tekarbon Angel Eyes Project-Michelin Super Sports-Hardwired Uniden R7-H&R front and rear spacers-Alarm module added-stereo amp recoded to vert settings
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2013, 04:51 PM   #7
seank
enthusiast
seank's Avatar
48
Rep
1,695
Posts

Drives: e30 m3,e90 wagon,sprinter,z4m
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: sacramento, ca

iTrader: (4)

The plus side is you can upgrade the bearings to larger bearing, and upgrade the oil pump. Sorry to hear. Just letting you know the positives of the situation.
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2013, 08:08 PM   #8
pcoppala
New Member
4
Rep
13
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Well I guess everyone has confirmed my fears. I was hoping low Copper counts may have been a saving grace.

Now onto the next topic: Any recommendations for new bearings? I'm presuming the coated ones from VAC Motorsports?
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2013, 08:39 PM   #9
gmd2003
Colonel
gmd2003's Avatar
352
Rep
2,176
Posts

Drives: 2014 CP M6 and 2006 VT 525 Z4M
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Carolina

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcoppala
Well I guess everyone has confirmed my fears. I was hoping low Copper counts may have been a saving grace.

Now onto the next topic: Any recommendations for new bearings? I'm presuming the coated ones from VAC Motorsports?
If your showing copper the bearings have already completely failed , so you shouldn't wait for that . I preferred the treated bearings from bimmerworld ( and while your in there upgrade to ARP rod bolts) , but both are good choices and a huge upgrade over stock.
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2013, 08:59 PM   #10
seank
enthusiast
seank's Avatar
48
Rep
1,695
Posts

Drives: e30 m3,e90 wagon,sprinter,z4m
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: sacramento, ca

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
If your showing copper the bearings have already completely failed , so you shouldn't wait for that . I preferred the treated bearings from bimmerworld ( and while your in there upgrade to ARP rod bolts) , but both are good choices and a huge upgrade over stock.
Yes, vac or bimmer world but both will disagree, as well as I about arp's, unless you are installing an MLS headgasket, which you don't need. Stock head bolts self tighten, stretch, while arp's should be tightened after 500 miles after the gasket compresses.

My2 cents because I have done this many times on my s14.

Upgrade oil pump while you are in there if you are ever going to track the car.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 05:19 AM   #11
Shipkiller
Colonel
Shipkiller's Avatar
United_States
187
Rep
2,138
Posts

Drives: Me
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia Beach

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by seank View Post
Upgrade oil pump while you are in there if you are ever going to track the car.
Are you just talking about the "VAC Oil Pump uprade kit" or the 'Euro High Volume Compitition Oil Pump"?

I am having my rod bearings replaced the first week of July (Blackstone lead level of '43') and I am trying to decide what else to do while I am in there.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 06:14 AM   #12
inTgr8r
Lieutenant General
inTgr8r's Avatar
Canada
2422
Rep
11,665
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by seank View Post
The plus side is you can upgrade the bearings to larger bearing, and upgrade the oil pump. Sorry to hear. Just letting you know the positives of the situation.
I've heard plenty about coated bearings, 1st I've heard about larger.
Do you have more info?

The other option for bearings is Randy Forbes.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=644245
__________________
'21 M2C Hockenheim Silver
'18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold)
'13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold)
'07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)

Last edited by inTgr8r; 06-18-2013 at 06:19 AM..
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 06:52 AM   #13
Shipkiller
Colonel
Shipkiller's Avatar
United_States
187
Rep
2,138
Posts

Drives: Me
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia Beach

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
I already have talked to Randy Forbes on this topic. He is ready to do mine if I drive down. I am doing a face to face with my local guy today.

VAC sells the standard bearing and the .025 undersized crank (oversized bearing).
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 08:06 AM   #14
kennyfrc
First Lieutenant
kennyfrc's Avatar
18
Rep
376
Posts

Drives: 2008 Z4MC
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: ATL GA

iTrader: (1)

Just remember that repairs are a 100% loss, may be time to look at that E92 M3.
__________________
Toy: 2008 Silver Z4MC 300WHP/241TQ

Mods: OEM Euro Headers, RPI Scoop

Daily: 2010 Tacoma Double Cab
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 08:16 AM   #15
Shipkiller
Colonel
Shipkiller's Avatar
United_States
187
Rep
2,138
Posts

Drives: Me
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia Beach

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyfrc View Post
Just remember that repairs are a 100% loss, may be time to look at that E92 M3.
What the hell does that mean????

You make no sense.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 09:10 AM   #16
kennyfrc
First Lieutenant
kennyfrc's Avatar
18
Rep
376
Posts

Drives: 2008 Z4MC
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: ATL GA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
What the hell does that mean????

You make no sense.
The money you put into car repairs will add NOTHING to the value of the car on sale or trade.

Example: My wife's Lexus is due for a timing belt/water pump, tires, and 100K service. Doing this will add nothing to the value of the car and it will still depreciate roughly 2K per year. Why not get the best deal possible on a replacement and focus on minimizing depreciation?

If I can get a deal on a replacement car that gives me the same depreciation over the next 5 years, a warranty, and spend nothing on repairs I come out ahead!
__________________
Toy: 2008 Silver Z4MC 300WHP/241TQ

Mods: OEM Euro Headers, RPI Scoop

Daily: 2010 Tacoma Double Cab
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 10:00 AM   #17
Shipkiller
Colonel
Shipkiller's Avatar
United_States
187
Rep
2,138
Posts

Drives: Me
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia Beach

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Yes, now I understand your comment. I am still trying to figure out what prompted it.

You will come out ahead if you are only looking at this from a tangible value aspect and I suspect that’s the only way you will look at this. With that said, I do not understand WHY you bought a BMW Z4M instead of, let’s say, a Honda Accord V6. I am SURE the Accord will depreciate less than the BMW and you will defiantly have less out of pocket expenses with the Honda.

I look at it this way. I don’t freaking care about depreciation or residuals on ANY of my vehicles. I keep car based on non-tangible factors for the most part. I like the way the Z4M feels when I drive it. I like the Roadster because I like the way it feels. I drive my truck because I like the way it performs in the areas that I drive it. None of them were bought with respect to resale values.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 10:31 AM   #18
XMetal
Colonel
XMetal's Avatar
United_States
1097
Rep
2,846
Posts

Drives: Anything
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 Z4M Coupe  [10.00]
2018 Audi S3  [0.00]
2004 X5  [8.50]
^^^
Well said.

Ship...how many miles on your car?
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 10:59 AM   #19
kennyfrc
First Lieutenant
kennyfrc's Avatar
18
Rep
376
Posts

Drives: 2008 Z4MC
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: ATL GA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
With that said, I do not understand WHY you bought a BMW Z4M instead of, let’s say, a Honda Accord V6. I am SURE the Accord will depreciate less than the BMW and you will defiantly have less out of pocket expenses with the Honda.
Maybe the Z4M is my "Honda Accord".
__________________
Toy: 2008 Silver Z4MC 300WHP/241TQ

Mods: OEM Euro Headers, RPI Scoop

Daily: 2010 Tacoma Double Cab
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 11:04 AM   #20
yousefnjr
salty cowboys fan
yousefnjr's Avatar
6115
Rep
3,392
Posts

Drives: ‘06 Z4MR, ‘20 X7, ‘22 M4x
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

The money you spend on repairs might not increase the resale value outright, but a car needs to be maintained to be worth anything. Good luck getting any value (compared to what you paid) trying to sell a car in major disrepair.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 11:05 AM   #21
mousitch
Dark Sider
mousitch's Avatar
127
Rep
1,777
Posts

Drives: 2008 Space Gray Z4MC
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (11)

Garage List
2008 Z4M Coupe  [7.50]
What kind of price ranges have you found for repairs?
__________________
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/153/071jt.jpg/]
2008 Space Grey M Coupe-RPI Scoop-Gruppe M CAI-Eisenmann Race Cans-RE X-pipe-ECU Remap-H&R Sport springs-Zeck CDV delete-Stock Gloss black powder coated wheels-LED Tekarbon Angel Eyes Project-Michelin Super Sports-Hardwired Uniden R7-H&R front and rear spacers-Alarm module added-stereo amp recoded to vert settings
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 11:07 AM   #22
Shipkiller
Colonel
Shipkiller's Avatar
United_States
187
Rep
2,138
Posts

Drives: Me
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia Beach

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMetal View Post
Ship...how many miles on your car?
38000 miles
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:40 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST