Emergency Help Needed - Clutch Bleeding Problem

[jdoublehcubed]

I was just finishing up my inspection II (did everything except for valve adjustment, thats next weekend) and have run into a major problem. If anyone can offer any suggestions, or if anyone in LA (I live in Pasadena) is in the mood to give me a hand for an hour, it would be a HUGE help.

I did a brake fluid flush and bled the brakes, and was bleeding the clutch. Unfortunately I tried to bleed the clutch with the brake reservoir about 2/3 full, which it turns out is a terrible idea on a BMW. The clutch and brake system both pull from the brake reservoir, however, the clutch line is dammed off inside the reservoir, and effectively pulls from right near the top. The result is that if you try to bleed the clutch with anything by a full reservoir, you fill up the clutch system with air. Thats what I did, fuck me.

I have been trying and trying to bleed the clutch system, but since its pretty much full of air at this point I have not had any luck. The pedal has no resistance, even if you pump it a dozen times.

I also tried reverse bleeding the system, by using an oil can to push fluid back up the bleeder, as shown here:

I have no idea why, but that was also unsuccessful. When I tried pumping the fluid in, I couldn't get it to go in through the bleeder. Once I unscrewed it at all, I was just getting fluid leaking out near the threads, instead of going up into the system.

Does anyone have any experience dealing with this? Anyone had this problem before? My next try is probably going to be to pulling the clutch slave and bleeding it manually by moving the piston back and forth, but I'm afraid of what new problem I'll run into.

Anyone live nearby and have a pressure bleeder they would be willing to loan me? Or even better, be willing to give me a hand? I would be more than happy to give you a hand with any other maintenance or repair you need to do, including valve adjustment (I've done it half a dozen times now).

Really running out of ideas at this point, someone please help.

[jdoublehcubed]

Just ordered a motive power bleeder overnight from Amazon, so I'll try bleeding it with that tomorrow evening.

[itdnwiwbp]

You should be good with the Motive bleeder. That's what I use. Very easy. When I bleed my clutch I empty 125mL to ensure a complete bleed. Run that much through and everything should be good to go. Good luck!

[DanFromTucson]

If you still have air trapped in the slave cylinder, you can also unbolt it and turn it upright so that all the air goes out the bleed screw on top.

[jdoublehcubed]

Originally Posted by DanFromTucson

If you still have air trapped in the slave cylinder, you can also unbolt it and turn it upright so that all the air goes out the bleed screw on top.

I thought of that, but I was a bit concerned about possibly bending the hard line that connects to the slave. It doesn't look like there is much/any slack.

[GomboRombo]

Originally Posted by jdoublehcubed

Just ordered a motive power bleeder overnight from Amazon, so I'll try bleeding it with that tomorrow evening.

Let us know how the Motive power bleeder works out. I plan to delete my CDV soon and I would like to know that there is solution if I somehow end up with air in the system. I was planning to do the reverse bleed method, but now this is the second post I've read where the reverse bleed did not work.

[StickMon]

When I did my CDV delete I used a hose pincher to prevent catastrophic fluid loss, and did the swap as fast as I could.
I lost about 3 drops. Had the Wife unit pump the pedal and easily bled out the one tiny bubble that got in.

About a year ago I installed Speed Bleeders and flushed the whole system solo in a little over an hour.
Not sure how many uses the thread sealant on the Speed Bleeders is good for, so I bought a bottle.

FWIW here's everything I bought for the royal flush, plus a "graduated" Gatorade bottle to measure how much I bled from each cylinder.
Credit to Ron Stygar for finding the correct bleeders.

[Dalecan]

The last and only time I changed a BMW clutch I had to use a pressure blender.

[a_riddler]

Love my motive pressure bleeder.

[GomboRombo]

Has anyone used this? It's a bleeder bottle with a check valve.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-17...ple-bleed.aspx

[dc_wright]

If you look at where the bleeder on the slave is with respect to the input line you get mostly direct flow from the line to the bleeder without much going through the cylinder itself. It can take a LOT of bleeding to get the air out because you only get a small fraction with each pump. The pressure bleeder should allow you to flow enough through there to get it fully bled.

[dschultz]

Originally Posted by GomboRombo

Has anyone used this? It's a bleeder bottle with a check valve.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-17...ple-bleed.aspx

Yes. But I also put a Motive Pressure Bleeder on the reservoir so it's mostly just a convenient catch bottle. In fact I've done it without the check valve and it doesn't really make any difference, except I can see & hear the brake fluid trickling into the bottle.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by jdoublehcubed

...........................

I have been trying and trying to bleed the clutch system, but since its pretty much full of air at this point I have not had any luck. The pedal has no resistance, even if you pump it a dozen times.
...........

There is a related thread where "shipkiller" has some good advice on this.

[GomboRombo]

Originally Posted by dschultz

Yes. But I also put a Motive Pressure Bleeder on the reservoir so it's mostly just a convenient catch bottle. In fact I've done it without the check valve and it doesn't really make any difference, except I can see & hear the brake fluid trickling into the bottle.

Do you think the bottle would work well with just the pedal pump method?

[jdoublehcubed]

Fixed.

Took the motive bleeder out of the shipping package, connected it to the brake reservoir, and was done in literally 10 minutes.

Can't believe I managed to get so much aggravation out of what should only be a 5 minute job to being with.

For anyone else doing this job; if you get any air in the clutch, put your tools down, order a pressure bleeder, and wait for it to come arrive. Everything in between is just a waste of time.

[inTgr8r]

^ thanks for the update, glad to hear that it was so simple

[elerner61]

How much air did you see come out? I'm curious as to how much air it takes to disable the slave.

[StickMon]

Originally Posted by GomboRombo

Has anyone used this? It's a bleeder bottle with a check valve.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-17...ple-bleed.aspx

The problem with those is since the bleeder has a tapered thread air gets sucked through the threads when you take your foot off the pedal.
The Speed Bleeders try and solve this by putting magical sealant on the threads.
What's not clear to me yet is how many uses before the sealant needs to be replaced, which involves taking all the bleeders out, stripping, re-coating, and baking in the oven for a while.

Originally Posted by jdoublehcubed

Fixed. ...

Glad you got it sorted.
I'm sold. Speed Bleeders or not, I'm buying one.
Do you have the info for the specific model you bought?

[jdoublehcubed]

Originally Posted by elerner61

How much air did you see come out? I'm curious as to how much air it takes to disable the slave.

It didn't look like much, but air is highly compressible. Once the pressure bleeder was attached and pumped up, all the air inside can be compressed to a very small volume, so it doesn't look like much coming out.

[jdoublehcubed]

Originally Posted by StickMon

The problem with those is since the bleeder has a tapered thread air gets sucked through the threads when you take your foot off the pedal.
The Speed Bleeders try and solve this by putting magical sealant on the threads.
What's not clear to me yet is how many uses before the sealant needs to be replaced, which involves taking all the bleeders out, stripping, re-coating, and baking in the oven for a while.


Glad you got it sorted.
I'm sold. Speed Bleeders or not, I'm buying one.
Do you have the info for the specific model you bought?

Thanks.

This is the one I bought:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o00_s00

The only extra feature I would like to have is the ability to pressurize it from an air compressor. I don't know if they sell one that does that or not, but maybe take a look on BavAuto before buying one.

If you're just working on the brakes, I'm not at all convinced you need one of these, as I've never had a problem bleeding the brakes, even after pulling the calipers and introducing looks of air at that end. But if you mess up the clutch like I did, its pretty hard to beat. The reverse bleeding technique I tried makes a big mess, and I think you need the bleed screw set perfectly to get the fluid to travel back up the line, instead of around the threads and back out.

[StickMon]

Thanks. j(2h)^3
I'm due for another complete system flush in the fall.
I also want to get attachments for my Ram and Ford trucks.
I'm sure I'll get plenty of use out of it.

[jdoublehcubed]

No problem.

Here's a list of the adapters they offer:

http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.c...ters_c_13.html