Do you consider your Z4 a "Sports Car?"

inTgr8r · 05-20-2007, 07:10 PM

Roadster = sportscar
coupe = drivers car

AlanL · 05-20-2007, 07:22 PM

Care to elaborate on your somewhat black and white distinction here?

Like I said in an earlier response I have no issue at all with my wheels being labeled a "Driver's" car.

inTgr8r · 05-20-2007, 07:37 PM

Sure...

To me a sportscar has always been a rear wheel drive, 2 seater, ragtop.

I grew up with my brother(s) and friends sportcars.
My brother had a TR3; Austin Healy.
His wife had a pristine MGA
Sis had an MGB, her bf had a AH Sprite.

I had a Porsche 914 done up to the nines with a 2.4 911 engine.
I never considered it a sportscar because of the targa roof.

& The M coupe I consider more of a "drivers" (road/track) car because of the solid roof.

AlanL · 05-20-2007, 08:01 PM

Interesting definition and I can see the context you are making it from.

I sort of feel like we are trying to make black and white check boxes out of rainbows but this has been an entertaining discussion given the categories that were defined at the top of the thread that split the usual definitions of "Sports Car" into several subgroups.

For me at the end of the day all the definitions melt together with the single question as you crawl behind the wheel - will this thing yank your chain?

If the answer is yes then shut up and drive

inTgr8r · 05-20-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanL

Interesting definition and I can see the context you are making it from.

I sort of feel like we are trying to make black and white check boxes out of rainbows but this has been an entertaining discussion given the categories that were defined at the top of the thread that split the usual definitions of "Sports Car" into several subgroups.

For me at the end of the day all the definitions melt together with the single question as you crawl behind the wheel - will this thing yank your chain?

If the answer is yes then shut up and drive

Amen

Rick Hunter · 05-20-2007, 08:59 PM

[u2b]RoYarJkUEA4&NR[/u2b]

I think the original sports cars back in the day were pure driver's cars - the vehicle gives you the raw feel of the road and then you use those inputs to control the car the way you need to control it. Over the years, manufacturers start adding to it "Atari" bits to help with driver precision, control, and comfort. We're at a point now that some sports cars have too little, too much, or just the right amount of "Atari" in them (subjective). So maybe the definition of "Sports Car" has evolved to such a degree that it is no longer a simple definition.

I think the definition of Sports Car has both "Driver's" and "Atari" in a spectrum (rather than what the journalist had presented):

|-----------------------------------------------------------|
Driver's<----------------------------------------------->Atari

They're still sports cars... just how much "Atari" does it have in it?

I personally think that the Zed has some Atari in it, when you compare it to the sports cars of the past. It's just more of a classic sports car because it's more driver focused.

enfield · 05-20-2007, 09:13 PM

Oh darn it. Just supercharge the Z4M Coupe to 500 horses and 380-something torques and it will be a proper sportscar! I am sure there are plenty of superchargers for the S-54 engine

AlanL · 05-20-2007, 09:46 PM

I hope they don't end up putting too much "Atari" in it but at the same time it seems almost inevitable. In this wondrous age of sue happy lawyers when car manufacturers make performance cars that actually behave in accordance with the driver's inadequate skills we have a dilemma - most drivers don't have a clue how to handle such a car even though they had the $$$ to buy it. They end up slamming it into a wall when it really does what they asked it to and go to their lawyers to get their money back with interest and then some.

The car manufacturers respond the only way they know how - add more electro-nannies to make the car "safer" for the idiots who can afford them and thus we now have a generation of "Atari" cars that are almost completely without the driving soul some of us really want.

Porsche has already had to deal with a couple of lawsuits from people with more money than driving skills who bought their Carrera GTs and in the end they will dumb down what they are willing to sell just to diminish their liability and we get yet another Atari car on the market.

I have spent a lot of time in the passenger seat out on tracks with folks who bought cars they had no idea how to control and do have to conclude that there is a reason we have such cars on the streets. Given what I have seen these folks do I also have to conclude that maybe it's not such a bad idea that these are Atari cars. I hope no one is offended if I don't want a car that has achieved this status.

At the same time it might be safer for the rest of us on the streets if some of these performance cars have enough electro-nannies to keep the unskilled drivers who can afford them from collecting us on their way to the nearest telephone pole.

Dammmittt · 05-21-2007, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Sure...

To me a sportscar has always been a rear wheel drive, 2 seater, ragtop.

I grew up with my brother(s) and friends sportcars.
My brother had a TR3; Austin Healy.
His wife had a pristine MGA
Sis had an MGB, her bf had a AH Sprite.

I had a Porsche 914 done up to the nines with a 2.4 911 engine.
I never considered it a sportscar because of the targa roof.

& The M coupe I consider more of a "drivers" (road/track) car because of the solid roof.

1. You're crazy...I guess a 911 Turbo or any exotic isn't a sports car cuz the don't vert. Good call int.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Roadster = sportscar
coupe = drivers car.

2. HELL NO. A drivers car is a friggin sedan...you want to just drive...get a 3-7 series. The M coupe is an awesome sports car any day of the week.

Quote:

Oh darn it. Just supercharge the Z4M Coupe to 500 horses and 380-something torques and it will be a proper sportscar! I am sure there are plenty of superchargers for the S-54 engine

3. The best way to go is the HPF turbo kit, and pump 650 hp and 550 lb-ft of torque to the wheels. You do that and you turn your little zed into a friggin exotic corvette killer.

fire-n-ice · 05-21-2007, 10:17 AM

Subjective I know but, to me a sportscar is more then speed. Size and handling mean just as much as quick, smooth acceleration, deceleration and responsiveness.

Dammmittt · 05-21-2007, 10:27 AM

Well...the faster the car is on a track...the sportier it is...right? Also seems like a lot of the stuff you're mentioning make a good "driver's" car right?

View Poll Results: Do you consider your Z4 a Sportscar?
It's a Driver's Car	19	33.33%
It's an Atari Car	1	1.75%
It's a Sportscar	37	64.91%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

05-20-2007, 07:10 PM	#23
inTgr8r Lieutenant General 2432 Rep 11,667 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (10)	Roadster = sportscar coupe = drivers car __________________ '21 M2C Hockenheim Silver '18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold) '13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold) '07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
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05-20-2007, 07:22 PM	#24
AlanL First Lieutenant 8 Rep 332 Posts Drives: 2010 328ix Sports Wagon Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (0)	Care to elaborate on your somewhat black and white distinction here? Like I said in an earlier response I have no issue at all with my wheels being labeled a "Driver's" car. __________________ 2010 328ix Sports Wagon
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05-20-2007, 07:37 PM	#25
inTgr8r Lieutenant General 2432 Rep 11,667 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (10)	Sure... To me a sportscar has always been a rear wheel drive, 2 seater, ragtop. I grew up with my brother(s) and friends sportcars. My brother had a TR3; Austin Healy. His wife had a pristine MGA Sis had an MGB, her bf had a AH Sprite. I had a Porsche 914 done up to the nines with a 2.4 911 engine. I never considered it a sportscar because of the targa roof. & The M coupe I consider more of a "drivers" (road/track) car because of the solid roof. __________________ '21 M2C Hockenheim Silver '18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold) '13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold) '07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
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05-20-2007, 08:01 PM	#26
AlanL First Lieutenant 8 Rep 332 Posts Drives: 2010 328ix Sports Wagon Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (0)	Interesting definition and I can see the context you are making it from. I sort of feel like we are trying to make black and white check boxes out of rainbows but this has been an entertaining discussion given the categories that were defined at the top of the thread that split the usual definitions of "Sports Car" into several subgroups. For me at the end of the day all the definitions melt together with the single question as you crawl behind the wheel - will this thing yank your chain? If the answer is yes then shut up and drive __________________ 2010 328ix Sports Wagon
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05-20-2007, 08:59 PM	#28
Rick Hunter Skull Squadron Leader 307 Rep 2,031 Posts Drives: '07 M Coupé & '16 435xi GCoupé Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Emerald City iTrader: (20)	[u2b]RoYarJkUEA4&NR[/u2b] I think the original sports cars back in the day were pure driver's cars - the vehicle gives you the raw feel of the road and then you use those inputs to control the car the way you need to control it. Over the years, manufacturers start adding to it "Atari" bits to help with driver precision, control, and comfort. We're at a point now that some sports cars have too little, too much, or just the right amount of "Atari" in them (subjective). So maybe the definition of "Sports Car" has evolved to such a degree that it is no longer a simple definition. I think the definition of Sports Car has both "Driver's" and "Atari" in a spectrum (rather than what the journalist had presented): \|-----------------------------------------------------------\| Driver's<----------------------------------------------->Atari They're still sports cars... just how much "Atari" does it have in it? I personally think that the Zed has some Atari in it, when you compare it to the sports cars of the past. It's just more of a classic sports car because it's more driver focused. __________________
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05-20-2007, 09:13 PM	#29
enfield Civilian 79 Rep 970 Posts Drives: Jaguar F-Type V8 S Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ontario iTrader: (0)	Oh darn it. Just supercharge the Z4M Coupe to 500 horses and 380-something torques and it will be a proper sportscar! I am sure there are plenty of superchargers for the S-54 engine
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05-20-2007, 09:46 PM	#30
AlanL First Lieutenant 8 Rep 332 Posts Drives: 2010 328ix Sports Wagon Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA iTrader: (0)	I hope they don't end up putting too much "Atari" in it but at the same time it seems almost inevitable. In this wondrous age of sue happy lawyers when car manufacturers make performance cars that actually behave in accordance with the driver's inadequate skills we have a dilemma - most drivers don't have a clue how to handle such a car even though they had the $$$ to buy it. They end up slamming it into a wall when it really does what they asked it to and go to their lawyers to get their money back with interest and then some. The car manufacturers respond the only way they know how - add more electro-nannies to make the car "safer" for the idiots who can afford them and thus we now have a generation of "Atari" cars that are almost completely without the driving soul some of us really want. Porsche has already had to deal with a couple of lawsuits from people with more money than driving skills who bought their Carrera GTs and in the end they will dumb down what they are willing to sell just to diminish their liability and we get yet another Atari car on the market. I have spent a lot of time in the passenger seat out on tracks with folks who bought cars they had no idea how to control and do have to conclude that there is a reason we have such cars on the streets. Given what I have seen these folks do I also have to conclude that maybe it's not such a bad idea that these are Atari cars. I hope no one is offended if I don't want a car that has achieved this status. At the same time it might be safer for the rest of us on the streets if some of these performance cars have enough electro-nannies to keep the unskilled drivers who can afford them from collecting us on their way to the nearest telephone pole. __________________ 2010 328ix Sports Wagon
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05-21-2007, 10:17 AM	#32
fire-n-ice Lieutenant 20 Rep 506 Posts Drives: 2003 Z4 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ga iTrader: (0)	Subjective I know but, to me a sportscar is more then speed. Size and handling mean just as much as quick, smooth acceleration, deceleration and responsiveness.
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05-21-2007, 10:27 AM	#33
Dammmittt My favorite sign. 169 Rep 4,333 Posts Drives: 2007 M Coupe Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Der Autobahnen iTrader: (0)	Well...the faster the car is on a track...the sportier it is...right? Also seems like a lot of the stuff you're mentioning make a good "driver's" car right?
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