Mechanic: "I don't want to work on your car"

[Britneysho]

So I shopped around for a new mechanic to handle replacement on a list of wear-and-tear parts for a '06 Z4MR with 40k miles. Found a guy 2 miles from home with great reviews. The experience was quite positive through the diagnostic process.


I had a bunch of flashing lights on the cluster, so I went in expecting an alternator issue. He said it's overcharging to 17v and needs to be replaced. I wanted him to consider just rebuilding with a new v. regulator since 40k is on the extreme low end of an alternator's lifetime. He didn't want to do that because he couldn't guarantee the repair and all that. I understood.

He said he would only install a Valeo 150A that he sourced himself. He wanted $595 for the part. Now, I'm no mechanical engineer, but I've replaced alternators in prior BMWs. My experience is that you can the OEM part for a fraction of the price if you buy it through a non-BMW distributor. In this case, I found a variety of distributors pricing complete Valeo 150A alternators between $275-375.

With that kind of price difference, my first instinct was that the alternators I found were the "$5 Mexican border town Oakley sunglasses" of the car part world. After several hours of research, I concluded that the parts I found are genuine, and the BMW markup really is that outrageous.

So I asked the mechanic to get the Valeo from a different distributor, but he refused to do so. I contacted 3 other local shop references (less conveniently located), and their part cost for the same Valeo was $325-375.

I called the mechanic to tell him I declined the repairs and would pick up the car and pay for his time spent on diagnostics. He said it would be no charge "because you don't want to spend money." It came off a bit snarky, but there's a tiny language barrier, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and took it as a bid for future business.

I picked up the car, and the first thing I noticed was that I didn't get any notes or diagnostic record. I didn't press it since he waived the charge. On my way out I thanked him for his generosity and said I would be back in the near future to have the brakes done. His reply was "actually, sir, I don't want to work on your car."

I just stood there kind of stunned thinking "what the actual fuck?" I'm having over $2k in work done with a service 2 in a few k miles, and this dude is telling me to get lost and not come back because I asked him to order the same part at a lower price?

So I did what Americans do - I got home and posted the story in a negative review (full disclosure: I referred to the mechanic's attitude as "kind of bitchy"). The shop replied to say that I was very nice but they would not work on my car because I "insisted" on using cheap aftermarket parts on a European performance car.

A guy from the local Porsche dealership replied to my review to defend his friend's shop. He said that if I'm so cheap that I have to use Chinese parts to repair my M, I can't afford to own a Euro car. Then he claimed to have screenshotted my review and sent it to every reputable BMW mechanic in the city so they could avoid "customers like you."

And just like that, shit got reeeeeal. Meanwhile, I'm just trying to make sense of their comments. A Valeo 150A is the OEM part, correct? So why the hell would I pay double for literally the exact same product? Did I violate an unspoken rule? Is there a thriving market for fraudulently-branded knock-off auto parts I need to watch out for?

I'm ok with being in the wrong, but I just want to understand what I did so I don't do it again. Can't say that it was a very enjoyable experience.

[gas-can]

I'm not sure about the M, but Valeo or Bosch probably made the alternator, so it should be OEM.

There's always 2 sides to every story and I don't know what the side of the shop is. It's pretty common (if not standard) for shops to upcharge for parts (especially after seeing a car like this, which looks more expensive that it actually is); the fact that the shop quoted such a large price is not really surprising. I fully agree with you on leaving then, and offering to pay the diag fee.

I think the escalation via social media was probably the problem here. Those kinds of reviews can make or break businesses, and it can really bring out a lot of emotion - especially at the extremes. That said, I don't like the shop's insinuations about you being cheap - that's not professional.

I don't know what you wrote on your review, but I support your actions (at least as you wrote here).

Why not buy the part from PelicanParts/FCPEuro and install it yourself? Not very difficult and save the money for some beer/scotch!

-gc

[Britneysho]

Originally Posted by gas-can

I'm not sure about the M, but Valeo or Bosch probably made the alternator, so it should be OEM.

There's always 2 sides to every story and I don't know what the side of the shop is. It's pretty common (if not standard) for shops to upcharge for parts (especially after seeing a car like this, which looks more expensive that it actually is); the fact that the shop quoted such a large price is not really surprising. I fully agree with you on leaving then, and offering to pay the diag fee.

I think the escalation via social media was probably the problem here. Those kinds of reviews can make or break businesses, and it can really bring out a lot of emotion - especially at the extremes. That said, I don't like the shop's insinuations about you being cheap - that's not professional.

I don't know what you wrote on your review, but I support your actions (at least as you wrote here).

Why not buy the part from PelicanParts/FCPEuro and install it yourself? Not very difficult and save the money for some beer/scotch!

-gc

Thanks for the reply! I'm actually trying to figure out if I did something inappropriate or if I was factually incorrect, so I gave a pretty fair version of the story. Here's the shop's reply, which is actually very polite:

I am so sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience. You came to us with a list of things you wanted us to check out and quote for you. We spent the time to check out why your ABS, traction control light, brake light and check engine light were on, quote for third brake light, check your rear diff and more.

After we determined your alternator was overcharging and causing some of those problems on your list, you wanted to order an alternator from online without knowing what brand it is. With our decades of experience with BMWs and Minis, we do not mess with aftermarket alternators for BMWs because we want to be able to confidently guarantee our work and our parts that we put into your very nice car. We do not want to put an aftermarket or rebuilt alternator in your car, have you pay for the labor and then see you back in a few months for the same problem. That was the message he was trying to relay and I'm sorry if there was any misunderstanding.

As to the price, the dealership price for your alternator is around $793 ---this is for your M engine. For a regular engine, you can find an alternator for ~$300 but that will not work for your car. Rebuilt alternators are not 100% guaranteed to work. Again, you would have to take it to get rebuilt, pay someone to install and there is still a chance that it would not work. $595 for a new M engine alternator is the best we can offer and guarantee.

The reason why we cannot work on your car is you insist on buying your own parts, which we have expressed that we will not put any aftermarket parts on your car. We did not charge you because we know the kind of money you will be needing to spend on this car for the alternator. We fixed your shifter knob--no charge-- and provided you with all the quotes of your car.

You were a very kind man, played with our dog and we were unaware of these issues you had with us. We wish the best for both you and your car and just know we do not hold any ill-will towards you. If you have any future questions about your car, please do not hesitate to give us a call.

They actually asked me to order and bring all of my own parts and fluids except for the alternator. I said no because I didn't want to take off work to sit at home to sign for packages or risk leaving them outside when it's been raining all week. So that whole bit is just bizarre.

I went to FCP Euro to price the alternator, which is here for $349: https://www.fcpeuro.com/BMW-parts/Z4...=1&brand=Valeo

But the reply makes it sound like I don't know the obvious difference between an M and a Z4, so I was worried that my facts were bad. I would rather get educated and eat some humble pie than refuse to admit when I'm wrong and end up with a bad part in the car.

[Daemonblitz]

Not surprised with how this escalated. Not to say that it was the right thing to do from either party but I've seen it many times.
I get why you want things done on your car a certain way and I also get why they just turned around and basically said, "you know what, not worth my time anymore".

[yousefnjr]

DIY and never look back

[Roadroach]

Perhaps they were concerned that a valeo 150A alternator supplied by the customer could potentially by a cheap Chinese knockoff. No way for them to guarantee parts if THEY couldn't guarantee the source.

I think if that was the issue though it could have been handled differently before it got to the online review stage.

[The HACK]

I'm with the mechanic. Most mechanics I know don't want to work with customers who bring their own parts. Because they have zero idea where the parts are sourced from. And they don't get to charge their mark-up on parts.

Those that DO accept a part from customer, typically have had a long working relationship with the customer, thus knowing that said customer isn't going to throw a hissy fit when they come back 2 weeks later and the part they brought is broken...And the customer, with a long working relationship, knows that the small to moderate up-charge for the part is how a lot of mechanics stay in business or make a moderate profit.

IMO the mechanic/shop dealt with you politely and fairly. They didn't charge you for the diagnostics, which they should have. They didn't go ballistic and escalate on social media, which they shouldn't do. They COULD have accepted your offer of buying your own alternator, or attempted to order one for you, but that means your car will be in the shop taking up valuable space and potentially rack time while they wait for the part to arrive, when they could have gotten the same alternator from a local parts distro for ~$400 with their up-charge, which is absolutely within their bounds.

The owner or the lead mechanic probably could have explained it better to you, or be up-front about the parts up-charge and their policy of not installing parts brought by customers. Of course, if I were to be 100% transparent and run my business that way, no one would bring their car to me to fix.

I'm a little surprised by the "we don't want you as a customer" slant, but if it's a busy shop, and they've got a reputation in the neighborhood as a top notch shop, I can easily see them turning away paying customers.

[Britneysho]

Originally Posted by Daemonblitz

Not surprised with how this escalated. Not to say that it was the right thing to do from either party but I've seen it many times.
I get why you want things done on your car a certain way and I also get why they just turned around and basically said, "you know what, not worth my time anymore".

Honestly, it probably wasn't worth their time. The shop is pretty high volume and charges substantially less than the dealership. A soccer mom would look at my estimate and see a $800 discount compared to the dealership, and I look at the exact same estimate and see a part total that's $700 higher than FCP Euro. I see that as being a financially responsible adult, but I guess it can come off as being high maintenance.

I am very particular with the car, and I definitely have a tendency to over-inform about problems what work I think needs to be done. Right after I bought the car I was concerned about the rear diff noise and had no idea what was wrong. One indy shop replaced the power steering fluid and a line for ~$500. The dealer fiddled around with a number of things around the wheel wells and tires before telling me I had to replace the steering rack (seriously!). Other shops diagnosed everything from bearings to axel.

I've owned three z-series cars, and in dozens of service appointments, I have never left with the problem actually being fixed. Once I started spoon-feeding mechanics part numbers, service bulletins, and information, the problem was solved the first time every time. That's 100% because of the knowledge base on these forums.

I think my skepticism just clashes a mechanic's sense of expertise.

[Britneysho]

Originally Posted by Roadroach

Perhaps they were concerned that a valeo 150A alternator supplied by the customer could potentially by a cheap Chinese knockoff. No way for them to guarantee parts if THEY couldn't guarantee the source.

I think if that was the issue though it could have been handled differently before it got to the online review stage.

That's right, and the shop raised that point. I responded by asking if I could have it shipped to them directly or if they could order it from the same distributor. I assumed that would more than suffice to verify the part was actual OE. They said no - $595 or nothing.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by Britneysho

That's right, and the shop raised that point. I responded by asking if I could have it shipped to them directly or if they could order it from the same distributor. I assumed that would more than suffice to verify the part was actual OE. They said no - $595 or nothing.

Not really. Without previous experience with "your" source/distributor, there's no way for the shop to validate the part's quality

[Britneysho]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I'm with the mechanic. Most mechanics I know don't want to work with customers who bring their own parts. Because they have zero idea where the parts are sourced from. And they don't get to charge their mark-up on parts.

I didn't want to bring my own parts, I just wanted them to order it from a certain place that was nearly half the price.

But you're talking about a mark-up on parts, which sort of confirms my suspicion. The dealership charges $800 for Genuine, and the shop buys an OEM for $275-300 and marks it up to $200 less than the dealer charges.

It hadn't occurred to me before now that 100% markups were part of the business model. From that point of view it would be like arguing with the waiter about the price on a bottle of wine that's half the price at the liquor store. When I think about it like that I feel kind of embarrassed.

On the other hand, I dropped it off at a place this morning that doesn't mark up parts. His labor rate is higher, but the total is still around 25% less. There are maybe 10 shops in my metro, and the 3 others I checked with didn't mark up the parts (at least not by double), so I'm not convinced that this margin is completely normal.

[Britneysho]

Originally Posted by XMetal

Not really. Without previous experience with "your" source/distributor, there's no way for the shop to validate the part's quality

I typically order through FCP Euro because I've had good experiences with them. But in general, what sort of quality validation is there to do on a new OEM part? OEM is OEM, no?

Are you referring to external factors that could affect certain parts, like storage, temp, humidity/moisture, handling, etc. that could compromise the integrity of an OEM part?

I could probably get on board with that explanation. Though with the number of solid sources I found under $400, it would be hard to believe.

[F360C]

Well this was a blessing in disguise because you can just replace the $60 voltage regulator on your alternator and it will fix the over charging issue. I have the problem and just changed mine. Took about 1.5 hours.

[Daemonblitz]

Do you find it odd that a shop will mark up parts for profit ? This is usual business practice. They make money on labour and the parts, no matter where they come from. If you have a problem with this I would recommend finding a shop that just allows you to source your own parts.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Britneysho

I didn't want to bring my own parts, I just wanted them to order it from a certain place that was nearly half the price.

Few self respecting mechanic is going to do that. Say they removed your alternator, ordered the part, and waited for 3-5 days for it to arrive. What are they going to do, put a faulty alternator back in your car and let you drive home? Store your car for a week? Leave it up on the rack? Tell you go go home and come back when they have the part(s) in stock? Order it and have it next day aired?

Imagine the liabilities.

Say they put your alternator back (or didn't touch anything, send you away). Order the alternator, 5 days later you changed your mind and had your car worked on by someone else. They're now stuck with a $350 alternator on their hands.

Say they order the alternator for next day air. Depending on where it's shipped from the cost of shipping is anywhere between $30-$100. You balked at a $500 alternator, what are the chances of you approving a $450 alternator purchase? Even if they could guarantee that it's 110% genuine, new not rebuilt alternator?

Say they order the alternator for ground shipping. $15 (or free, depending on where you order it from) shipped across country. That means they would have to store your car for up to a week. For a busy shop, space is a premium. My buddy mechanic down the street from me, him and his mechanic spend anywhere between 30 minutes to an hour EVERYDAY moving cars in and out of their storage. That's 30 minutes to an hour of every mechanic that is involved in moving cars that's not making $$$ fixing cars. Most mechanic do not like having to store customer cars on site.

From a shop/mechanic's perspective, what you proposed would raise a bunch of red flags. First, if they're already working on a discounted rate for the mechanics, that means you're taking away one of their livelihoods: Parts mark up. Second, all the scenario above means, for a busy shop, that they stand some risk to lose money for work rendered (i.e. car storage, or cost of expedited freight, sending you away without fixing car). If they're going to lose that business anyway, might as well cut bait and send you home and let another shop deal with you. Third, IF I was a mechanic, and I am not, but if I was, I would be very alarmed for a customer I don't know to raise all these questions. Yes it's more hassle dealing with the average soccer moms, but customers armed with "internet knowledge" is far worse. Believe you me, I've hung out at these them intarweb forums, and 99.95% of advice being handed out by so-called "internet experts" are dead wrong. I would never touch someone that claims that they found XYZ part at $XX.xx on the intarweb. I would have sent you home too.

Luckily I'm not a mechanic.

Now, I have had a few times when my mechanic has diagnosed a problem on the car, and they couldn't source the parts from their local suppliers. At that point I typically take the car home (if it's running) or leave it at their shop (if it's not). My mechanic trust me to "buy" my own stuff, but he (despite over 15 years of friendship) refuses to install stuff I bring to his shop. He'll put the car up on a lift for me to install it.

On occasion he will install aftermarket stuff that I bring. But if it's OEM stuff he insist on installing ones he source. And I don't blame him.

[Britneysho]

Originally Posted by Daemonblitz

Do you find it odd that a shop will mark up parts for profit ? This is usual business practice. They make money on labour and the parts, no matter where they come from. If you have a problem with this I would recommend finding a shop that just allows you to source your own parts.

I find it quite odd, actually. If I'm paying $100+ per hour for time and labor, I categorize that as a service profession. I would totally expect to pay the markup between wholesale and retail plus overhead (shipping, order time, etc).

My landscaper didn't double the price of his plants. My HVAC guy didn't double the price of the A/C unit. I don't bill clients double the cost of a court reporter. All of those examples involve billing the client directly for material procurement costs.

I do see your point, though, like I mentioned with the bottle of wine example. I certainly didn't expect it, though. At least not at such huge and verifiable margins.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by Britneysho

I typically order through FCP Euro because I've had good experiences with them. But in general, what sort of quality validation is there to do on a new OEM part? OEM is OEM, no?

Are you referring to external factors that could affect certain parts, like storage, temp, humidity/moisture, handling, etc. that could compromise the integrity of an OEM part?

I could probably get on board with that explanation. Though with the number of solid sources I found under $400, it would be hard to believe.

Yes - while OEM is OEM, there are still a lot of counterfeit stuffs out there. You may have had good experiences with a certain vendor, but if the shop hadn't done business with that vendor before, it's difficult for them to use it with confident since they are liable for the work done on your car (unless you sign a waiver).

[Britneysho]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Reasons

Good points that help me understand why a general policy would exist.

The other parts were going to take two days anyway. I figured I could get approval on one or several sources, order, pay, ship to shop, and email proof of purchase to the shop. It actually makes perfect sense, but I see your point about risk. I suppose it's just a matter of trust you earn over time, and that goes both ways.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Britneysho

I find it quite odd, actually. If I'm paying $100+ per hour for time and labor, I categorize that as a service profession. I would totally expect to pay the markup between wholesale and retail plus overhead (shipping, order time, etc).

My landscaper didn't double the price of his plants. My HVAC guy didn't double the price of the A/C unit. I don't bill clients double the cost of a court reporter. All of those examples involve billing the client directly for material procurement costs.

I do see your point, though, like I mentioned with the bottle of wine example. I certainly didn't expect it, though. At least not at such huge and verifiable margins.

Different industries work differently, I assume.

I know in IT it is common place to mark up the cost of hardware to clients. We bought and installed a couple of rack servers for my old jay-oh-bee, and knowing quite a few IT professionals I chuckled at the price(s) we paid for both the install AND the hardware.

Other service industries do it too. For example, you had mentioned cost of corkage. Restaurants mark up the cost of wine in addition to service rendered. I know for sure most interior designers mark up price of the furniture in addition to the cost of their services. There are a bunch of other examples that escape my mind right now, but I think that practice is far more prevalent than it is not, especially for the more costlier services (IT charges $100+ per hour too).

[Britneysho]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Different industries work differently, I assume.

I know in IT it is common place to mark up the cost of hardware to clients. We bought and installed a couple of rack servers for my old jay-oh-bee, and knowing quite a few IT professionals I chuckled at the price(s) we paid for both the install AND the hardware.

Other service industries do it too. For example, you had mentioned cost of corkage. Restaurants mark up the cost of wine in addition to service rendered. I know for sure most interior designers mark up price of the furniture in addition to the cost of their services. There are a bunch of other examples that escape my mind right now, but I think that practice is far more prevalent than it is not, especially for the more costlier services (IT charges $100+ per hour too).

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I really appreciate the perspective. I definitely don't want to disrespect a professional, and it helps to have context on what's considered reasonable. Thanks again =)

[Vanne]

Haha, lol, Brit..

I would have been exactly the same as you, just shows what a mine field the non-stealer repair/mech zone is. For me, if they would have refused to order in the part that i told them to do, that would have told me enough about the shop and i would have taken my business elsewhere there and then.

I have had to search for a lot of different indi shops because my previous experience with my car and the fact that i do do a lot of work on the car myself makes me a slightly more educated owner (than possibly a soccer mum :roll eyes and have been ripped off, over charged for parts to the moon and back and have had repairs done to my car that were not even done, but required to pay for either way, as that is what the quote said.. Conversation got pretty loud i can tell you after putting my car up on the lift and getting them to show me the repairs, and finding for example that the CDV/wheel bearings or diff carrier bushing had not been replaced. (but tried to charge me for labour and parts anyways)

what does this mean? (well in my area anyways, i know where you guys live, people don't try to rip you off, without even thinking about it, its in their blood here) so i understand the difference..between being FORCED to work on your own car, learning a lot in the process and just taking it to an indy and then picking up the car, paying the bill without even going to see the parts/car/area where it was being worked on.

This also leads to another problem, I have had shops tell me not to come back because i know (or think I know )too much about my car and its parts, and i query EVERYTHING.. well i used to, now i mostly do my own work, and in this long process over the last 3 or 4 years have actually found a pretty good shop that does let me bring my own parts (however, of course for them, bringing own parts, means there is zero warranty on the parts for them, nor the install process)

Unless you know the mechanic/owner of the shop, i can also understand the hesitation of allowing you to bring your own parts, but to me there is also a difference between a say soccer mum bringing in a alternator, and a car enthusiast bringing in an alternator.

At any rate, i understand the issue Brit, somewhere along the line you will find a shop that satisfies your requirements, or you will learn to do a lot yourself, or both. Its your cash, you decide what to do with it.

[chickdr]

As noted in the reply by the repair shop- they are giving you a better price than the dealership would. This is about right IMHO. You save about 30% by going to a non dealer. They are completely within their rights to deny taking your parts. As an ER vet I get folks all the time who come in at 2am and are pissed my prices are more expensive than the discount day vet they use. It costs me more to do business and I wouldn't be able to survive if I had the cheapest price in town.