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      04-22-2014, 06:42 AM   #23
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My advice is to test drive the new and old Z4 and the 3 series and see what feels good for you. We cant tell you how to feel about certain car and discussion is hard to keep if you havent driven say the new Z yourself. Good luck with your injury too, sounds bad!
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      04-23-2014, 06:16 PM   #24
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Well, I'm hoping to get out to a dealer about 25 minutes from me sometime within the next few days.

I got a bit depressed today, though. According to KBB, my SC430 should be valued around $11,500 as a trade-in (still nervously anxious to see what some of the dealers actually offer me for it), and I was hoping to get an '06-08 Z4 for under $25K. So, about a $12K difference, give or take. With the super-low loan rates that some of the local credit unions are offering (2% or so), I figured I'd finance that difference. Welp, when I dug deeper today, it looks like they only offer those rates for '09 or newer. There was one credit union that still had a low rate (2.5% I think) for '08. But anything '07 or older, and their rates jump way up (5% or more). Kind of a bummer. I could afford to pay the difference out of pocket, but I'd prefer to keep the cash on hand for other things (e.g., gotta get our driveway paved this year, and that's not going to be cheap).

So that put a damper on things. But I'm still going to pursue test driving a Z4.

Another possibility would be to jump to a newer model. From what I'm seeing online, that would likely jump me up to the $30K and up range. I do like the newer model's hardtop, but am I crazy for saying that I think I prefer the look of the 1st gen? It also seems like the newer gen is more luxury than sports car, and one review I read indicated that BMW overdid it on the power steering assist.

Yet another option might be to jump down to an older model ('03-'05), so that I could pay minimal cash out of pocket. But I'd probably just be deferring slightly handing more money out, as an older model will be more likely to have some sort of issue, need a costly maintenance service (e.g., timing belt), or whatever.
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      04-23-2014, 11:08 PM   #25
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Have you tried PenFed? I think their current rate is 2.49% for used vehicles, irrespective of model year with a $100K max loan limit. You shouldn't have any problem finding an '06-'08 Z4 for under $25K. BMW USA had several CPO's a few months ago that fell within that price range, but they no longer appear to be available. However, they have some '09's and up and will likely have more, as leases expire and dealers replenish their sports car inventories.
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      04-24-2014, 07:15 AM   #26
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Hey, thanks for the tip. Just took a look at their site. Do you have personal experience with them? Do you know how quickly they can approve you and get a check out to you? And is it one of those situations where they can approve you for "up to $xxx" and send you a blank check so that you can fill it in at the dealer? I bought one of my cars a while back that way, but I forget who it was through.

Update: Reading the fine print, it sounds like there's some conflicting info about which model years it applies to. I'll give them a call later today and ask some questions.

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      04-24-2014, 09:25 PM   #27
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Another vote for PenFed. I've joined but not used them yet. Joined on recommendation of a ton of people on various auto forums. Unbeatable rates and great service, I hear over and over again.
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      04-24-2014, 09:31 PM   #28
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I used PenFed to purchase my Z4 seven years ago, with no problems. I know they just bumped their rates. I think they were .09% for the last year. You can thank our improving economy for that.

You're on the right track calling them to get the most current details.
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      04-24-2014, 10:02 PM   #29
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I just bought my 2nd car with penfed - yes, I got a "blank" check within a few days. It was at 1.99% last month. Highly recommended bank - the easiest I've worked with
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      04-25-2014, 04:48 PM   #30
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I've driven mine in the winter with Continental DWS and some weight in the trunk. With careful driving, it's fine. Mine has been very reliable. Good luck with your decision.
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      04-25-2014, 07:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT-Scott View Post
Well, I'm hoping to get out to a dealer about 25 minutes from me sometime within the next few days.

I got a bit depressed today, though. According to KBB, my SC430 should be valued around $11,500 as a trade-in (still nervously anxious to see what some of the dealers actually offer me for it), and I was hoping to get an '06-08 Z4 for under $25K. So, about a $12K difference, give or take. With the super-low loan rates that some of the local credit unions are offering (2% or so), I figured I'd finance that difference. Welp, when I dug deeper today, it looks like they only offer those rates for '09 or newer. There was one credit union that still had a low rate (2.5% I think) for '08. But anything '07 or older, and their rates jump way up (5% or more). Kind of a bummer. I could afford to pay the difference out of pocket, but I'd prefer to keep the cash on hand for other things (e.g., gotta get our driveway paved this year, and that's not going to be cheap).

So that put a damper on things. But I'm still going to pursue test driving a Z4.

Another possibility would be to jump to a newer model. From what I'm seeing online, that would likely jump me up to the $30K and up range. I do like the newer model's hardtop, but am I crazy for saying that I think I prefer the look of the 1st gen? It also seems like the newer gen is more luxury than sports car, and one review I read indicated that BMW overdid it on the power steering assist.

Yet another option might be to jump down to an older model ('03-'05), so that I could pay minimal cash out of pocket. But I'd probably just be deferring slightly handing more money out, as an older model will be more likely to have some sort of issue, need a costly maintenance service (e.g., timing belt), or whatever.
The Z4MRs are going around around 24-25k so I can't imagine you cannot find a none M for under 20k. The interior on the new ones is great IMO, the exterior is not quite as aggressive. My biggest issue with the new one is the higher powered 35i has the N54 which after my 335 I want nothing to do with. Also, although I have not driven the new one, I have a feeling it will be all around softer, especially softer than the Z4M which is not something I want.

However like others have said drive them both and see what you like.
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      04-25-2014, 08:58 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT-Scott View Post
Well, I'm hoping to get out to a dealer about 25 minutes from me sometime within the next few days.

I got a bit depressed today, though. According to KBB, my SC430 should be valued around $11,500 as a trade-in (still nervously anxious to see what some of the dealers actually offer me for it), and I was hoping to get an '06-08 Z4 for under $25K. So, about a $12K difference, give or take. With the super-low loan rates that some of the local credit unions are offering (2% or so), I figured I'd finance that difference. Welp, when I dug deeper today, it looks like they only offer those rates for '09 or newer. There was one credit union that still had a low rate (2.5% I think) for '08. But anything '07 or older, and their rates jump way up (5% or more). Kind of a bummer. I could afford to pay the difference out of pocket, but I'd prefer to keep the cash on hand for other things (e.g., gotta get our driveway paved this year, and that's not going to be cheap).

So that put a damper on things. But I'm still going to pursue test driving a Z4.

Another possibility would be to jump to a newer model. From what I'm seeing online, that would likely jump me up to the $30K and up range. I do like the newer model's hardtop, but am I crazy for saying that I think I prefer the look of the 1st gen? It also seems like the newer gen is more luxury than sports car, and one review I read indicated that BMW overdid it on the power steering assist.

Yet another option might be to jump down to an older model ('03-'05), so that I could pay minimal cash out of pocket. But I'd probably just be deferring slightly handing more money out, as an older model will be more likely to have some sort of issue, need a costly maintenance service (e.g., timing belt), or whatever.
I found that rates went up about a percent if you were to buy from private party vs a dealer. The lowest rate I could find was 2.9% apr from dealer through Wells Fargo.
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      04-26-2014, 02:21 PM   #33
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I have an M Roadster and I drive it all year, including through one of the most miserable, snow-clogged winters ever this past year. The car was fine. I have Pirelli Snowsports and they were great. My last three cars have all been lightweight RWD convertibles. I think LSD + winter tires is a good winter combo, but only you know your comfort level.
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      04-27-2014, 05:44 PM   #34
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Does LSD really offer that big of an improvement for winter driving compared to the traction control feature that comes standard on most models?

So I finally made it out today to test drive a BMW. It was at my local CarMax. 2007 3.0si. Not a color I'm really interested in (Black), since that's the color of my SC430 and I'd want a change, and something that shows scratches less (so probably silver or dark gray). The interior was red, which I wouldn't mind having with a silver/gray Z4, but it looked dirtier and more worn than my 2002 SC430's interior. Based on some photos I've seen online of other Z4's and SC430's interiors, I'm thinking that the there might be something extra-durable about the SC430's leather. Oh well, I could cope.

Before I get to the driving experience, let mepreface it by saying that I hate car dealers and I don't particularly like having the salesperson riding with me. This is a 2-seater and I went to see it by myself, but I have a feeling that had I gone with my wife or daughter they would have still wanted to drive with me and leave my wife/daughter at the curb. CarMax seems to have some "policy" where the salesperson claims that they have to drive the car out of the gates, and then they'll switch places with you. I wonder if they have that little story just so they can have an excuse to go on the ride with you. Meh. So I start out and the guy is giving me directions. The whole thing results in a very short test drive, and with the salesperson with me, I also didn't feel comfortable putting it through its paces. So one bad mark against CarMax there. The CarMax experience also ended on a sour note. They offered me $9000 for my SC430, which was about $2500-3000 less than the KBB value for a dealer trade-in.

As for the driving experience, I was quite pleased with it. It definitely felt closer to my RX-8 than my SC430. Did it feel *as good* as I remember my RX-8 feeling? No, but that could very well be due to the very short test drive, the route I was taken, and the fact that I had the salesman sitting next to me.

My feelings as of today are as follows: There was nothing about the driving experience that turned me off from the car, but I don't think I'm willing to take a paltry $9k for my SC430. If it came to that, I think I'd prefer to keep the SC430.

Unfortunately, there was a local BMW dealer that also had an '07 3.0si. And it was dark gray. I was hoping to head to Hartford on the same day to test drive both that one and the CarMax one and get trade-in offers from both dealers. I suspect the BMW dealer would have let me drive the Z on my own, as well. Unfortunately, the car at the BMW dealer disappeared off of their website this morning (I wouldn't have been able to test drive it today anyway, as they are closed on Sundays, and yesterday it was pouring rain around here, so not a good day to test drive a convertible). Anyway, so that's a bummer.

But I guess the good news is that I don't feel rushed to do anything, so I can just take my time and see what deals pop up. Unforunately, I was hoping that CarMax would offer me a better trade-in value, since I like the fact that I could have a car shipped in from another CarMax on the other side of the country.
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      04-27-2014, 06:06 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT-Scott View Post
Before I get to the driving experience, let mepreface it by saying that I hate car dealers and I don't particularly like having the salesperson riding with me. This is a 2-seater and I went to see it by myself, but I have a feeling that had I gone with my wife or daughter they would have still wanted to drive with me and leave my wife/daughter at the curb. CarMax seems to have some "policy" where the salesperson claims that they have to drive the car out of the gates, and then they'll switch places with you. I wonder if they have that little story just so they can have an excuse to go on the ride with you. Meh. So I start out and the guy is giving me directions. The whole thing results in a very short test drive, and with the salesperson with me, I also didn't feel comfortable putting it through its paces. So one bad mark against CarMax there. The CarMax experience also ended on a sour note. They offered me $9000 for my SC430, which was about $2500-3000 less than the KBB value for a dealer trade-in.
I have always gotten low ball offers from Carmax but I still take it in because it gives me a baseline to work with. Personally I find the sales people at Carmax pretty laid back and not very pushy at all. I would much rather go test drive something at Carmax than a dealer. I'm in and out in no time. As for the guy being in the car, that has been the case on every test drive I have ever been on except maybe 1. Personally makes no difference to me, I will drive the car how I please regardless, after all, I'm the one buying it.

I will say at least with the Z4M (may differ for the none M versions), you have to really open it up to get a feel for it. If you are just driving on city streets never getting close to redline then you are missing out. So if you have issues driving it "hard" with the sales rep then I would definitely suggest getting a solo test drive somewhere else.
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      04-27-2014, 06:32 PM   #36
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I agree with you about the laid back experience at CarMax. I can go in, test drive some cars, and leave without them trying to get me to stay. You won't hear that classic car salesman line, "What can I do to get you in this car today?" It's an interesting business model, and one that doesn't work great for getting a good deal (for selling your car or buying a car from them) but it makes for a good window-shopping/test drive experience in that regard.

I actually have had a couple of experiences at other dealers, where they handed me the keys and told me to take it out and enjoy it. No salesman in the car. One I think even offered to let me take it overnight. I believe that was a local Toyota dealer. Not sure how much of that had to do with me living local. There may be some "sizing up" as to the calibre of customer they're dealing with (I'm 42 and might have had my Lexus with me).

As for pushing it to redline...part of my dilemma is that much of my driving will be on local roads near my house. I probably won't get to push it to the redline very often even after I own it. I care more about taking it through turns at a speed that feels high for that sort of thing, but is probably low-MPH.

That all raises an interesting question...should I be focusing my search on a 2.5i? But, if the 3.0i, 3.0si, or M have upgrades which impact handling characteristics, I might still prefer to pay extra to get those. Also, while I won't be traveling on the highway daily, I will travel on the highway occasionally (I drive to PA about once a month), so I'd still get to push it to the redline on occasion.
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      04-27-2014, 11:09 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT-Scott View Post
That all raises an interesting question...should I be focusing my search on a 2.5i? But, if the 3.0i, 3.0si, or M have upgrades which impact handling characteristics, I might still prefer to pay extra to get those. Also, while I won't be traveling on the highway daily, I will travel on the highway occasionally (I drive to PA about once a month), so I'd still get to push it to the redline on occasion.
This reminds me of the first time I ever test drove a Z4. I was at a VW dealership that seems to specialize in selling used, sporty cars. I was there test driving a Vette...didn't care for it...and asked if I could test drive a little maroon 2.5 Z4. Liked it but wanted more punch, so the salesman let me take out a 3.0 forget which version); much punchier, quite peppy. But I told him I still wanted a V8 and he encouraged me to take their one and only M out for a drive (with him). Wow! The salesman actually MADE me go faster and drive it harder than I thought I should. Unfortunately for him I didn't buy my MR there, as their car had too many miles and too many scratches, but I was in love and quickly bought a different MR. Test driving this thing between 4k and 6k RPMs would be ideal.

If money is an issue then I think you would be fine with a 3.0. I don't know how the 3.0's stats hold up vs. the M's stats but unless you really want that visceral, almost race car-like feeling, I think the 3.0 would be fine. Personally I had to have the M and have modded it up slightly since purchase.
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      04-29-2014, 06:48 AM   #38
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One thing that didn't hit me until later...the '07 3.0si I test drove did not have a "Sport" button. What exactly does that button do? Does it change anything that impacts the handling or is it just related to speed (shift points on an automatic trans model, etc.)?
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      04-29-2014, 08:44 AM   #39
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At least on the M it increases throttle response. That's pretty much it as far as I can tell.
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      04-29-2014, 11:30 AM   #40
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On my 3.0si, the sport button makes the steering stiffer, changes the automatic transmission's shift points to a higher rpm and makes the throttle more responsive.
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      04-29-2014, 01:18 PM   #41
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Thanks. I should have googled it before even asking. Yeah, that's pretty much what I've read (tighter steering, more responsive throttle, and shift point changes for the auto trans).

On a MT like I'd be interested in, the shift points wouldn't apply. The stiffer steering sounds appealing to me (my '91 Toyota MR2 didn't have any power assist - I think it was an option at the time). I have, however, read some negative comments from people who feel like the throttle becomes a bit too excitable for everyday driving.
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      05-02-2014, 08:37 PM   #42
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Some recent developments...

My brother came to visit. He was previously driving an '04 325ic convertible, automatic. I had driven it a couple of times and remembered thinking that I liked the way it handled better than my SC430. Anyway, he recently had a bout of mechanical problems, and because he had also put a lot of mileage on it, after the most recent issue he decided to trade it in instead of fixing the last issue. He ended up with an '11 135 convertible (auto again, but w/paddle shifters). Finally got to see it today and took it for a test drive...

Very sweet acceleration, handling, and feel of the road. My only complaints would be that the steering felt like it had more power assist than I like (but probably a bit better than my SC430) and the auto trans (I very briefly tried the paddle shifters but it felt odd to me - I'd have to give it a better chance, I guess, to give a worthwhile opinion).

I also tested out having my wife sit in the passenger seat and daughter behind her, and they were able to pull that off semi-comfortably. I think I'd still prefer losing the back seat and going with a Z4, though.

One other thing that I'd like your help on...When we got back to the house I noticed he had a bulge on the side of one of his runflat tires. He has to drive back from CT to PA (about a 4 hour drive) tomorrow. Is it safe for him to drive on this tire?
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      05-02-2014, 09:21 PM   #43
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All I can say is do it! - I picked up an '07 M Roadster a week ago - I just can't get over the visceral experience with this car - the connection to the road is what a real BMW should be - not the crap electric steering in my 550-I have the car in San Antonio - just loving the Spring mornings and evenings with the top down.
I did have to spend a few bucks in getting the Service II done and new tires - and a few cosmetic changes, but I figure I'm going to keep this car for many years (at least 5), probably doing a max of 25K miles in this period.
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      04-29-2017, 08:26 AM   #44
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Hey guys, I'm back.

I can't believe it was 3 years ago that I first created this post and I still haven't done *ANYTHING*. Yup, I'm still driving my '02 Lexus SC430. I'm really sick of it now, though, and I'm fairly confident that this is the year that I'll *FINALLY* be moving on to something new.

I was starting to lean towards a Scion FRS / Subaru BRZ / Toyota 86 since it should also give me some comfort on the reliability/maintenance-cost side of things, but my wife was sad about me not having a convertible, so I started debating the Z4 again. And even though I still like the look (top-down) of the original Z4 styling better than the 2nd-gen, I'm leaning towards the newer model mainly because of the retractable hardtop. I haven't test-driven a 2nd gen yet (and I still only have the one, very limited, experience of driving the 1st gen that I documented in this thread).

Anyway, I thought it would be fun to bump this thread and hopefully get some of you to offer your opinion about the merits of the 1st gen vs the 2nd gen.
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