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View Poll Results: Vote for April 2013 POTM
kcdedric 15 21.13%
Mgwatson48 3 4.23%
Moo 3 4.23%
Intoflatlines 3 4.23%
Ricanbandit 2 2.82%
Rick Hunter 10 14.08%
SgtGigglebox 27 38.03%
ZheHbKa 1 1.41%
ZHPZ4 7 9.86%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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      04-23-2013, 01:10 AM   #1
Finnegan
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Vote Now! April 2013 Picture of the Month

Another great set of pictures this month!

Now the tough part--choosing which one to vote for!

1. kcdedric
Name:  kcdedric.jpg
Views: 660
Size:  243.2 KB

2. Mgwatson48
Name:  mgwatson.jpg
Views: 653
Size:  373.1 KB

3. Moo
Name:  Moo.jpg
Views: 643
Size:  199.8 KB

4. Intoflatlines
Name:  potm april intoflatlines.jpg
Views: 648
Size:  577.3 KB

5. Ricanbandit
Name:  Ricanbandit2.jpg
Views: 533
Size:  431.8 KB

6. Rick Hunter
Name:  Rick Hunter.JPG
Views: 529
Size:  458.7 KB

7. SgtGigglebox
Name:  SgtGigglebox-Apr2013 (1).jpg
Views: 638
Size:  377.5 KB

8. ZheHbKa
Name:  ZheHbKa2.jpg
Views: 514
Size:  441.3 KB

9. ZHPZ4
Name:  ZHPZ4.JPG
Views: 624
Size:  28.7 KB

Last edited by Finnegan; 04-24-2013 at 01:25 AM..
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      04-23-2013, 12:21 PM   #2
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sgtgigglebbox's pic looks like its straight out of the brochure. Great pic!
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      04-23-2013, 12:29 PM   #3
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It looks like there are some compression artifacts due to the scaling, which is not doing some of these pictures justice.
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      04-23-2013, 01:50 PM   #4
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You can hand over the prize right away. There is, and will be a clear winner. Sorry to the others...

kcdedric is second.
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      04-23-2013, 01:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marinb View Post
It looks like there are some compression artifacts due to the scaling, which is not doing some of these pictures justice.
A couple of the emailed submissions were in the correct 800 x 600 format, but very small file size (under 100kb). That seemed odd, as most are in the 400 - 500 kb range. I have no idea what the size should be--just that if I try to upload a 800+ KB file it fails to upload. 500 or so seems fine.

I'm not a digital photo expert or editor. Perhaps someone who is can add info on how to size a pic without losing richness/resolution. I'll add that to the instructions as tips in the submission reminders.
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      04-23-2013, 03:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
sgtgigglebbox's pic looks like its straight out of the brochure. Great pic!
+1 on that!! Another great submission by SgtGigglebox.
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      04-23-2013, 03:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marinb View Post
It looks like there are some compression artifacts due to the scaling
Huh?!
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      04-23-2013, 04:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokeoluck View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by marinb View Post
It looks like there are some compression artifacts due to the scaling, which is not doing some of these pictures justice.
Huh?!
Ok, specifically... Ricanbandit, Rick Hunter, ZheHbKa, ZHPZ4 pics are compress 10x more than the rest, and look blurry and lack detail because of it. I bet the originals of these pics look way better than what we see here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
A couple of the emailed submissions were in the correct 800 x 600 format, but very small file size (under 100kb). That seemed odd, as most are in the 400 - 500 kb range. I have no idea what the size should be--just that if I try to upload a 800+ KB file it fails to upload. 500 or so seems fine.

I'm not a digital photo expert or editor. Perhaps someone who is can add info on how to size a pic without losing richness/resolution. I'll add that to the instructions as tips in the submission reminders.
I'm no expert either, and I think it largely depends on the tool they are using to downscale the image, so it would be hard to provide specific instructions. However you could just say in the instructions to shoot for around a 500KB file size for best results.
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      04-23-2013, 04:51 PM   #9
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Original: Sgt Gigglebox April Submission
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      04-23-2013, 05:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marinb View Post
Ok, specifically... Ricanbandit, Rick Hunter, ZheHbKa, ZHPZ4 pics are compress 10x more than the rest, and look blurry and lack detail because of it. I bet the originals of these pics look way better than what we see here.



I'm no expert either, and I think it largely depends on the tool they are using to downscale the image, so it would be hard to provide specific instructions. However you could just say in the instructions to shoot for around a 500KB file size for best results.
Yeah, definitely some whacky compression going on with a few of them. I generally use Photoshop and it's "Save for Web" that allows you to specify the size of the output, but obviously, there's tons of different software out there.

I'm certainly no expert either, but I'd be happy to "convert" pics for people (its a 10 second thing). Just shoot me an PM
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      04-24-2013, 02:36 AM   #11
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Guys, thank you for the input.

I went back to the email original files, downloaded, and re-uploaded. Rick's and Rican's photo appear better--at least to my untrained eye. Nothing could be done for ZHPZ4's as it's only 73 kb. ZheHbKa's photo had to be manually resized as the site uploader wouldn't upload it as it was too large. (The uploader seems to make decisions on compression on its own in some cases.) According to the rules I could have just tossed it, but I was tired, didn't want to exclude anyone, and just wanted to get things uploaded and done.

I apologize if mistakes on my part have affected the outcome or enjoyment of participants and viewers. To avoid this in the future, a strict reading of the "submission must be 800 x 600 rule" will be observed*. That keeps the playing field level, and ensures that the submission process and photos accurately reflect the submitter's intent and editing decisions. Nothing I can do if the uploader decides to compress things on it's own however, which it seems to do for the larger file size of the spectrum it will accept.

*The limit on files size seems to be 1600 x 1200, and from experience, about 750KB max. 800 x 600 was originally selected to correspond to the typical monitor size and screen resolution IIRC. I'm sure many of the photos--ever those without obvious compression issues--would benefit from a larger file amount of data (e.g. file size), or even a larger photo size like 1600 x 1200. Most shots I take are 4 to 5 MB in size, and lose a lot of detail when reduced to something that can be uploaded to a thread. I don't see way around that. Thoughts?
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      04-24-2013, 10:32 AM   #12
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I just had to submit whatever I already had in the 1 month of owning the car. Next month's submission will be better since I will have time to shoot. But I am at least happy that someone did vote for mine
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      04-24-2013, 10:33 AM   #13
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Different picture programs use different algorithms to resize/compress images. Some algorithms are more or less intelligent than others. My guess would be that the functions on the message board that try to resize automatically are pretty low on the evolution scale (likely pretty old and open source).

I'm looking into throwing something together that lays out some free (and non-free) tools that folks can use to resize & tweak their pictures. Any of the modern/current free tools out there should be much much better.

Here is Ricanbandit's taken through a simple "save for web" in Photoshop:
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      04-24-2013, 11:05 AM   #14
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So, I'm confused. Requirements are that images are 800x600 px in size. Looking at other submissions above, it is clear that some are not this size. Are we allowed to submit images in other sizes? I would have loved to have submitted my photo in its native aspect ratio instead of cropping it to a more square format (not that it would have made the photo much better, I just prefer a 3:2 aspect ratio, similar to 35mm film)...

Just trying to clarify for next time. I'd rather submit an 800x533 image with the correct aspect ratio then do 800x600 (as requested) which forces me to crop. I suppose I could letterbox though.

Last edited by intoflatlines; 04-24-2013 at 11:12 AM..
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      04-24-2013, 11:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intoflatlines View Post
So, I'm confused. Requirements are that images are 800x600 px in size. Looking at other submissions above, it is clear that some are not this size. Are we allowed to submit images in other sizes? I would have loved to have submitted my photo in its native aspect ratio instead of cropping it to a more square format (not that it would have made the photo much better, I just prefer a 3:2 aspect ratio, similar to 35mm film)...

Just trying to clarify for next time. I'd rather submit an 800x533 image with the correct aspect ratio then do 800x600 (as requested) which forces me to crop. I suppose I could letterbox though.
I used letterboxing last month, but saw enough variations in the pictures submitted that I began to interpret the 800x600 requirement as a "max", where the picture width could not exceed 800 and the height could not exceed 600. Obviously, whether you letterbox or just use the sizes as a max (e.g. submitting something 800w x 533h), you'll give up a little bit because the image will appear smaller when seen in band with the other submissions... but if its what you think makes the best product, so be it.
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      04-24-2013, 12:05 PM   #16
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Yes, for certain photos I feel that aspect ratio is more important than the actual size. Still, it's interesting to see that some images are much larger than 800x600..

If the 800x600 requirement means that the longest edge should be no longer than 800px then I will submit accordingly next time

Lots of nice photos up there, by the way!
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      04-24-2013, 12:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intoflatlines View Post
Just trying to clarify for next time. I'd rather submit an 800x533 image with the correct aspect ratio then do 800x600 (as requested) which forces me to crop. I suppose I could letterbox though.
Well said! When trying to resize things to exactly 800x600, it seems some things get squished or flattened so that the proportions of the car look weird. I don't want my car looking like a TT!! As stated above, I would rather see the rule as the longest dimension must equal 800 or something like that.

BTW, Finnegan has been doing an excellent job since picking up the POTM. There have been a lot of excellent high-quality pictures showing up.
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      04-24-2013, 11:10 PM   #18
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Thanks guys. Let's keep thinking through the dimensions question. Giggles, great idea on some tools we can use for resizing. But let's work on deciding how we want to size things going forward. I'm open to what folks want to do and which will give us the best product/results/artistic freedom and which can still be uploaded (w/o the forum software whacking quality).
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      04-25-2013, 08:26 AM   #19
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I use Photoshop CS6 at home, but on my work laptop (which I use throughout the day to post here while I should be working) I use GIMP. It's a free image editing program that is just as good as Photoshop if you're just looking to make minor changes. It even does some more advanced things too.

I'm personally fine with having the limit on size be 800px at the longest edge, as long as it is truly enforced.

Those of us that follow the rules and take extra steps to size our image to the correct dimensions shouldn't have a disadvantage in size/detail compared to someone that submits larger size images. If larger sizes are OK, that's fine by all means, but then put that larger size in the requirements so that everyone can size their images accordingly. Regardless if whether you want to stick with 800px at the longest edge, or 1000px, etc., I think that the requirement should be enforced. If the requirement is 800px at the longest edge, and someone submits something 1200x500 px, it should not be allowed IMO.
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      04-25-2013, 11:20 AM   #20
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800x600 is a bit too small imo. Most of us have 22"+ size monitors these days. 1024 or 1280 are a nicer size I think
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      04-25-2013, 12:18 PM   #21
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A lot of people have 22"+ monitors (myself included), however I'd argue that a very large portion of users are using 14" laptops with a horizontal resolution of 1440 px. Add the sidebar for the forum and the likelihood of having the window be less than full screen (multitasking), and I think 800 px is decent. Maybe we could have the 800px image linked to a full resolution image, although that would be time/space consuming for whomever is setting up the threads
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      04-25-2013, 12:56 PM   #22
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I also think 800 is bit too small. My vote is for 1024. Even on my 11" laptop I wouldn't need to scroll horizontally.
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