Z4 M Ess Vt2-500 Has To Go!

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by JDN34

Just like many recently came on board, I wish it was available a few months ago when I was looking.

IMO, if you get rid of the bottle and A-pillar gauges, you might get more hits from those who prefer factory interior/stock looking car. just my 0.2

GLWS.

Actually, your 02. cents is worth at least $32,000 That is exactly what I did. I removed the A pillar gauges and replaced new A pillar cover and removed the bottle. I kept the cigarette tray gauge pod with boost, fuel psi and egt as they all match and it looks very tasteful and the colors match factory interior. The car is a true sleeper I bumped the price to $34,000 on Ebay, but will sell here for $32,000

[cmark8]

where were you in october??

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by cmark8

where were you in october??

Bad timing for me Any takers yet? $32,000 is a great price

[MagicVioletZ1]

Hello. It's simple really. I've experienced what you're experiencing before. For instance, I'm looking to buy an SL65. I may want to do the Renntech upgrades for more power and torque but I won't buy a Renntech modified car even though it would save me thousands. Why? No one wants to buy a car with modifications because it means the car, e.g., engine (pistons, rings, etc), transmission, cv joints, rear end, etc., have all been exposed to greater than normal stress and wear. Making matters worse for you, your car was the prototype. Note also, pistons and rings are different when designing a turbo/supercharged engine. The standard BMW M motor does NOT have boost spec components. Prototype work is never as good as production verisons. Remember, your car was the guinea pig. Even manufacturers prototype cars are famous for never being as refined as production runs. Moreover, a quick view of their website seems to indicate the kit, brand new out the door, lists for $7900.

Ask any dealer and they will tell you. Modifications DECREASE a car's value. Think about it and you'll come to see it makes sense.

[ZStig]

while I partially agree, many people here would have bought the car for $32k if the timing was right for them, including me

[MagicVioletZ1]

Perhaps, but even fresh stock Z4 are not pulling the money now. This one will sell for mid-20s.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-W...item20b6708b27

As for timing, it's better now than it has been for a couple of years so I'm not sure what you mean by timing.

Nevertheless, even the new Z4, a far more refined vehicle with a not so cheap looking interior, are not bringing big $$$.

The fact is the market is flooded with lots of cars and lots of good ones at that while new cars are offering far better performance and for less money than in the past.

[cmark8]

I would've bought the car for 32k right off the batt back when I was looking for z4m's.

[MagicVioletZ1]

I'm hearing a lot of coulda woulda

SHOW ME THE MONEY!

[cmark8]

part the kit out!

[johanness]

Originally Posted by MagicVioletZ1

Nevertheless, even the new Z4, a far more refined vehicle

If by 'refined' you mean 'less involving the driver'

Originally Posted by MagicVioletZ1

The fact is the market is flooded with lots of cars and lots of good ones at that while new cars are offering far better performance and for less money than in the past.

Nah, I'll stick with our e86 instead of the e89 ANY day and I think a lot of others would too.

The OP's deal is a good one.

[MagicVioletZ1]

No, by refined I mean cheap plastic interior replaced by far nicer and more upscale looking interior. Anyone who's driven both knows the new one, albeit less involving perhaps, is far more refined in its fit and finish and execution.

[cmark8]

Originally Posted by MagicVioletZ1

No, by refined I mean cheap plastic interior replaced by far nicer and more upscale looking interior. Anyone who's driven both knows the new one, albeit less involving perhaps, is far more refined in its fit and finish and execution.

The problem is... People buy the e86 because it's a car that is more involving, a driver's car... The e89 is a nice car, more luxurious plastic, leather, and other materials, but I would never ever trade my e86 for it... there's just something about this car that makes me want to look at it every time I open the garage.

OP: good luck! Sorry for borrowing the thread... If you decide to part the kit let me know! I'll be the first in line

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by MagicVioletZ1

Hello. It's simple really. I've experienced what you're experiencing before. For instance, I'm looking to buy an SL65. I may want to do the Renntech upgrades for more power and torque but I won't buy a Renntech modified car even though it would save me thousands. Why? No one wants to buy a car with modifications because it means the car, e.g., engine (pistons, rings, etc), transmission, cv joints, rear end, etc., have all been exposed to greater than normal stress and wear. Making matters worse for you, your car was the prototype. Note also, pistons and rings are different when designing a turbo/supercharged engine. The standard BMW M motor does NOT have boost spec components. Prototype work is never as good as production verisons. Remember, your car was the guinea pig. Even manufacturers prototype cars are famous for never being as refined as production runs. Moreover, a quick view of their website seems to indicate the kit, brand new out the door, lists for $7900.

Ask any dealer and they will tell you. Modifications DECREASE a car's value. Think about it and you'll come to see it makes sense.

Actually the M3 vt2 is $7995 and the Z4 M vt2 is $10,995 which you wont find listed on their site. A phone call to Roman at ESS will get you that figure straight from the horses mouth. The market holds the answer to this car valuation....we shall see. I got a PM from a guy in Canada that just got the VT2-500 for his Z4 M and after his purchase, install, logistics he has spent $15,000 to have this kit on his car. I'm no math wiz, but I think that makes my car a very good deal at $32,000 for the right person. cheers
Joe

[fr8tdog]

Originally Posted by MagicVioletZ1

Hello. It's simple really. I've experienced what you're experiencing before. For instance, I'm looking to buy an SL65. I may want to do the Renntech upgrades for more power and torque but I won't buy a Renntech modified car even though it would save me thousands. Why? No one wants to buy a car with modifications because it means the car, e.g., engine (pistons, rings, etc), transmission, cv joints, rear end, etc., have all been exposed to greater than normal stress and wear. Making matters worse for you, your car was the prototype. Note also, pistons and rings are different when designing a turbo/supercharged engine. The standard BMW M motor does NOT have boost spec components. Prototype work is never as good as production verisons. Remember, your car was the guinea pig. Even manufacturers prototype cars are famous for never being as refined as production runs. Moreover, a quick view of their website seems to indicate the kit, brand new out the door, lists for $7900.

Ask any dealer and they will tell you. Modifications DECREASE a car's value.



Think about it and you'll come to see it makes sense.

You dont need to modify this cars pistons and rods until you reach 9psi of boost. The vt3 will require lower compression pistons and upgraded rods. Keep in mind the S54 motor already has forged rods and crank shaft. The S54 truly is built like a tank. Horsepower freaks at horsepowerfreaks.com have done amazing things to demonstrate the S54 capabilities. They build up to 1200whp with the S54 for the E46 M3.

[MagicVioletZ1]

This is what EVO Sport says about supercharging the stock motor. The words "catastrophic" engine failure keep popping up.
I'm just relaying what they state:

1.If your "totally engineered" approach is more expensive than bolt-on kits, why did you design your package that way?

Simply stated - more power in a broader RPM range, greater reliability, and an ability to run on 91 octane pump gas!

A bolt-on supercharger kit cannot achieve optimal performance on the S54 engine. In stock form, the S54 engine has already been virtually optimized by BMW. This is supported by the fact that so few measurable power gains have been achieved by aftermarket tuners in the 4-years the engine has been on the market. With stock 11.5:1 compression, efficiently flowing head design and 8,000 RPM revving, "bolt-on" power comes with significantly increased risk of catastrophic engine failure due to surpassing the engine's maximum design specs. Use of California 91 octane gas further exacerbates the problems. To address this risk, bolt-on kits typically minimize boost, reduce maximum engine RPM limits, and overly richen the fuel mixture. We were unwilling to accept this risk or operational compromise in our product design.

Therefore, we took the approach an engine manufacturer would take - design and build the "bottom end" of the engine to handle the power and stresses the engine will create. It's the right way to do the job! Our design approach will permit significant boost, retain stock upper RPM limits, allow proper air/fuel mixture settings, and run well on 91 octane gas.


2.Why did you select the ProCharger C2 blower?

It is a proven product, operationally and space efficient, and utilizes a self-contained oiling system that, unlike many competitive units, eliminates the need for modification to the engine's factory oiling system to supply/return oil from the blower.


3.Why did you reduce the engine compression from 11.5:1 to 9:1?

Supercharging significantly increases the effective compression ratio of an engine. Since the S54 engine in stock form is already near its engineering limit, the additional effective compression from a supercharger would greatly increase in-cylinder temperatures which could lead to detonation and pre-ignition. The result could be catastrophic engine failure. By reducing the engine's base compression ratio, these risk factors will be mitigated and the effective compression rise from supercharging will raise the overall effective compression back up to an optimal yet safe ratio.


4.Why use a charge cooler?

To achieve optimal operating efficiency, a supercharged engine needs the charge air temperature to be as close to theoretical minimum as possible. Charge cooling helps get the charge temperature down to the minimum temperature necessary for a particular boost level to be achieved. We have located the charge cooler inside the intake manifold in order to cool intake air immediately prior to ingestion into the engine. This provides optimal cooling.


5.Why the air-to-liquid type charge cooler?

Air-to-liquid charge cooling provides a more consistent environment than air-to-air for the thermal exchange to take place given the fact that liquid will absorb heat energy at a faster rate than air-to-air exchange. Therefore, the cooler assembly can be made smaller. This will result in better throttle response because the charge does not have to travel as far through a system before reaching the throttle. It also minimizes radiated heat energy that can be absorbed by longer plumbing typically required by air-to-air coolers.


6.Why add a heat-exchanger, electric water pump and remote reservoir?

After the charge cooler absorbs the heat from the charge air entering the engine, it needs to be dissipated and replaced with fresh cool air. This is done in two ways: by cycling a large volume of coolant through the system (which quickly absorbs heat energy as it passes through), and by utilizing a front-mounted heat exchanger (which cools the air immediately prior to re-entering the charge cooler). Use of a high-capacity electric water pump ensures optimal water flow and pressure throughout the heat-exchanger system without the loss of engine power that a mechanical pump would create. The heat-exchanger system is also isolated from the vehicle's engine cooling system to maximize cooling effectiveness.


7.Why change the clutch?

The stock clutch and flywheel are engineered by BMW to function within an operational range matched to the engine's power and torque output. When power and torque are significantly increased (as with a supercharger), the stock clutch and flywheel assemblies will not be capable of handling the additional operational stress over an extended period of time. They will fail prematurely. We provide an ultra-high-performance clutch and flywheel capable of handling the power developed by the supercharged engine.


8.Why change the stock injectors?

New, larger fuel injectors are necessary to achieve the proper air/fuel ratio and match the greater fuel requirements that are a result of the significant increase in the mass volume of air the engine will now ingest due to the high output of the supercharger unit.


9.Why Powerchip engine management software?

An engine as highly developed as this one requires sophisticated custom-developed engine management software to perform optimally. Having worked with several software developers over the years, we have consistently found Powerchip to provide the most effective tuning on highly-developed engines retaining factory ECU's. Powerchip and evosport have partnered on the development of custom software specifically for this application.

[FerRrari]

Is there a reason why you keep trashing this thread? If you don't like the S/C then move on.

[cmark8]

Originally Posted by FerRrari

Is there a reason why you keep trashing this thread? If you don't like the S/C then move on.

Agreed. Out of 5 posts, 5 of them are in this thread. Let the OP sell what he is selling.

[MagicVioletZ1]

I simply reponded to the inquiry, not trashing anything. The car seems to be extremely nice. In my view, the market is soft, as evidenced by actual sale amounts and numbers on Ebay while the new Z4's low resale numbers are further cutting into the old Z4's sales. I'm not talking theoretical, just market reality. Nice M Z4's are SELLING for mid-20s.

If you want a supercharger discussion then I'm open for that too. I'd note Mercedes, who built perhaps the most potent supercharged mainstream vehicles ever offered for sale with their 55 motors, STOPPED supercharing and has advanced to turbos. The simple fact of the matter is it takes a lot of power to turn a supercharger and that's power that's gotta come from somewhere, that is, the engine. It's simply not efficient. I know of Porsche Turbos, Ferrari Turbos, facotry BMW turbos and Formula 1 turbo cars. Not so many using superchargers....

There's one reason the aftermarket uses them: They are far cheaper to design and install as turbo systems require exhaust system space and replumbing. It takes neligible hp to spin a turbo and I've read where a supercharger alone can consume 60 hp at boost!

Speaking of turbos, I wonder who'll be the first to transplate the BMW twin turbo V8 into a Z4?