Z4M "Coupe" Prices - NOT Roadsters

[David70]

Originally Posted by jdmoore1618

The fact that they buy cars at KBB value and jack up the prices double what a normal dealership would. Also, they don't haggle on their like "new cars" and they have these ultra low mileage low production cars sitting in the elements. If you have more money than sense and don't mind waiting for a more sensible route then by all means blow the extra money on the car.

Much rather buy from an actual dealership that is less scummy or a private party that has babied the car and not sat on a lot for an extended period of time.

EDIT: The BMW dealership I got mine from had it sitting inside because, "Who in their right mind would put something so rare outside." Maybe the lied but I was still on the EAG train.

When you went to your BMW dealership in Indiana, pretty sure 95% of the cars are sitting out in the elements, many worth 2-3 times what a Z4M is worth and people realize they are out in the elements. I would also guess your local dealership is trying to sell their cars, new and used, for as much as they think they can get for them (common practice with capitalism).

EAG tries to buy low and sell high and aren't interested in haggling, yup, exactly like the products we are manufacturing. I am in sales and am instructed to try to get as much for our products as I can.

Best I can tell your gripe is the cars sit outside and they try to get top dollar for them. I still don't see a problem.

[mpathic]

About low miles claims, up to E36 and Z3, and similar era 5,6, 7, and 8 series, the odometer is driven through an electrical connector onto the differential. Disconnect it, and the car doesn't register miles.
Those cars had electronic odometer displays that were tamper proof for the electronics era they were designed in. But there are plenty of underground hackers who can rollback the miles on the electronic odometers just like old PC's ofthe same era are easily hacked into, despite them being quite secure in their time.
I like to buy and sell honest miles, and the buyer of my old 199k E36 M3 valued the car's outstanding condition and extensive documentation more than the number of miles it had on it. Same with buying an E39 5 speed Touring at 143k, and 2001 Z3 at 155k. Condition and documentation matter more than the number on the odometer. Plenty of cars out there that a careful and educated eye can tell a story of many more miles than the odometer says.
There's also the internal self test readouts that some BMW gauge clusters provide by turning on the key with the trip odo reset button pressed or something similar.
I'd venture a well educated guess that a skilled computer geek could get some EAG cars and other ultra low miles cars on the market busted for fraud.

[David70]

Originally Posted by mpathic

About low miles claims, up to E36 and Z3, and similar era 5,6, 7, and 8 series, the odometer is driven through an electrical connector onto the differential. Disconnect it, and the car doesn't register miles.
Those cars had electronic odometer displays that were tamper proof for the electronics era they were designed in. But there are plenty of underground hackers who can rollback the miles on the electronic odometers just like old PC's ofthe same era are easily hacked into, despite them being quite secure in their time.
I like to buy and sell honest miles, and the buyer of my old 199k E36 M3 valued the car's outstanding condition and extensive documentation more than the number of miles it had on it. Same with buying an E39 5 speed Touring at 143k, and 2001 Z3 at 155k. Condition and documentation matter more than the number on the odometer. Plenty of cars out there that a careful and educated eye can tell a story of many more miles than the odometer says.
There's also the internal self test readouts that some BMW gauge clusters provide by turning on the key with the trip odo reset button pressed or something similar.
I'd venture a well educated guess that a skilled computer geek could get some EAG cars and other ultra low miles cars on the market busted for fraud.

Carfax and dealer records are far from perfect but both normally give you an idea of when miles were put on the car (when service was done and DMV registration information if resold) and I got both on my car before I bought it. Virtually every car goes to the dealer for issues and service at some point and then each time it is sold the mileage is recorded and most Z4M's aren't with the original owner. Then if the miles are rolled back drastically there are normally condition issues like front end chips, wear on the seats, wear on the pedals, etc. that clue you into it. I guess a one owner car with no dealer visits in the last 9 years would leave you with nothing but the condition to look at.

As far as the fraud goes, I don't believe EAG would risk doing it (doesn't this come with possible jail time, especially for a business?) so if it was the person they bought it from I don't see buying from them or the individual making any difference.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by mpathic

About low miles claims, [snip rest of "low mileage = fraud" response]

Or the cars just have low miles. Occam's Razor.

My zed is a toy, as I'm sure they were and are for many other people. My car will see less than 4K miles in its first year under my ownership. It's only that high because: a) I really love the thing; and 2) I only have one toy. If I had more toys I'd put even fewer miles on the zed.

I have no problem whatsoever believing that there are Z4M coupes with 11K honest miles.

[jdmoore1618]

Originally Posted by David70

When you went to your BMW dealership in Indiana, pretty sure 95% of the cars are sitting out in the elements, many worth 2-3 times what a Z4M is worth and people realize they are out in the elements. I would also guess your local dealership is trying to sell their cars, new and used, for as much as they think they can get for them (common practice with capitalism).

EAG tries to buy low and sell high and aren't interested in haggling, yup, exactly like the products we are manufacturing. I am in sales and am instructed to try to get as much for our products as I can.

Best I can tell your gripe is the cars sit outside and they try to get top dollar for them. I still don't see a problem.

I didn't get mine in Indiana. Nor have I see another one in Indiana since the white one on here got sold.

My gripes:

• They charge too much (Only care if wanting to buy one)
• They don't do any haggling (You're in sales you should know about haggling)
• Cars sit in a salt belt (X dealership that sells Y cars has this too, I wouldn't bother with them either)
• "Like new" quality on 10 year old cars isn't going to happen

They seem to be doing just fine though so good for them.

[Gladius]

My father was in the car sales industry his entire career. He tells me that back in the early days, odo fraud was pretty common. But once they started passing significant laws against it, and the technology improved, it just wasn't worth the hassle to the dealers. This was probably back in the late 70s. It's simply not worth the hassle and risk on a $30k-$40k car to roll back the odometer for a few extra thousand. Sell one extra car and you make up the difference without the risk. These cars were produced in such low numbers, and have such a niche market, that garage queens are inevitable.

[mdashi]

yes, bought it from Mike

[mpathic]

Fluids and rubber items still need replacing over time, separate from how many miles on them. Bought my MC at 76k, from a private seller, A+ condition except for some fang scrapes, with receipts and documentation that we only normally dream about, including Blackstone oil reports.
Condition and maintenance can keep a car's valuation high, while signs of wear despite low miles take a car's value right back down.

[mpathic]

Having owned both, I found the Roadster to be less flexy than a z3 when cornered hard. The Coupe is another world better when pressed and leaned on. Firmer and tighter ride that still has good isolation against NVH. Coupe has a few key suspension upgrades from the R; stiffer front springs, quicker steering, thicker rear swaybar.
Currently have a Coupe, along with a modd'ed Z3 3.0 liter Roadster when I want the top down.