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      12-18-2013, 08:49 PM   #1
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BBK or Evolve Airbox

Ok guys,
This is the question, I am contemplating either an AP racing/or StopTech BBK or Evolve airbox for the winter upgrade. I should say that Schrick 288/280 cams are going in in addition to the DKF section 1 (already running Fabspeed Headers).

Either way the winter months are going to be filled with pain (as I will be doing all the extra shifts and selling my soul at work to make this a reality

I did notice fade last yr at several tracks (running stock calipers with DTC 60 pads front and rear with SS lines and ATE fluid) which would make the BBK a no brainer, buuuuut I was thinking of rigging up some actual brake ducting which should help tremendously.

the airbox would be soooo sweet, esp with the cams installed at the same time.

opinons?


thanks!
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      12-18-2013, 08:54 PM   #2
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if you track....brakes.
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      12-18-2013, 08:57 PM   #3
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In what conditions did you experience fade?

Fluid might be your problem, and going to Motul RBF600 or similar would help. I agree that ducting would help alleviate the issue.

BBK IMO would be the wiser of the two choices, but if you're braking incorrectly...or using a fluid that cannot handle heat, you'll still fade.
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      12-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #4
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BBK will give a bigger upgrade on the car and will give more result on lap time.
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      12-18-2013, 09:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
In what conditions did you experience fade?

Fluid might be your problem, and going to Motul RBF600 or similar would help. I agree that ducting would help alleviate the issue.

BBK IMO would be the wiser of the two choices, but if you're braking incorrectly...or using a fluid that cannot handle heat, you'll still fade.
I was thinking fluid initially as well, but at last track day in NJ i was able to perform a full impromptu flush in the paddock with new ATE 200 fluid, and still had an issue by end of session. There was some smoke coming up from front calipers after the session. No visible fluid had spilled or leaked. Brakes were soft for sure, but had not gone away (prob b/c I was using actual track pads)
It certainly may be my technique, braking a bit too early and for too long that's doing it as well.

Last thought...(this may sound stupid) but I am using CCW classic wheels, and wondered if because of the mesh pattern, there simply isn't enough air getting to the rotor, as opposed to a more open design.
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      12-19-2013, 01:36 AM   #6
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Depends what you need. If you're tracking and brakes are fading a bbk is prob what you need.

If what you need is an aggressive as hell intake that sounds like a hornet getting skullfucked by the devil then go for the evolve
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      12-19-2013, 09:57 AM   #7
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You may be onto something with the mesh wheels and less cooling available for the rotors.

My vote goes for the BBK for any car that sees the track. Stock components will suffice if you upgrade pads, lines, and fluid; but size really does matter when it comes to heat dissipation, and that's where BBKs will start to shine.

If the airbox yielded more HP and/or were cheaper in cost, then it would be a tougher decision as to which option would yield the better bang for your buck. But as things stand, for this kind of money spent, I believe you'll definitely get more out of a set of BBKs.
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      12-19-2013, 06:42 PM   #8
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Last year track days on stock brakes I had fade. This year track day on StopTech BBK I had zero fade and I went harder on the brakes than before. Around town won't notice but on the track you will. Plus you can see the BBK kit, can't see the airbox
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      12-20-2013, 05:40 PM   #9
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BBK it is

Thanks for the input!

Looks like the consensus is for the big brake kit first, which is kind of what I figured.

Initially I was holding out that my Mega Millions plan would have gone though, and I could spring for both!

Ahh such is life.


Although I suppose if my sanity holds up with the existing extra shifts I could squeeze out a few more and get-r-done.
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      03-14-2014, 10:51 PM   #10
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First Update

So its been a couple months of extra shifts at work combined with several evenings cobbling things together in the garage, but it looks like things are shaping up for the spring.

AP Racing BBK is on, Evolve Airbox has arrived, and is awaiting an install along with the Schrick 288/280cams at VAC.

Some initial impressions of the BBK:

As most of you know, and that now includes me... Here in the US there is really one direct supplier of AP Racing kits, which is Essex.

I, however was unaware of this at the time, and purchased the kit from European Auto Source... who in-turn is supplied by Stillen.

A quick search of the inter-webs has me pretty pissed, as I've been swindled, getting some bargain bin items... fortunately first impressions are not always accurate

The front 6 pot kit is the same as the E46M3 kit with matching part numbers on the caliper and the rotor (rotor is the same as the Z4 kit). Both kits use their 5000 series caliper, which from what I can tell by looking at all of the different detailed spec sheets on the AP website is similar across the product range. And as the caliper I received was initially sourced for the E46M3, I was confident that the parts were not yesteryear's leftovers.

The rear caliper P/N was the same as specified in both kits E85/86 and E46.
The rear rotor, however, as far as I can tell, is a Stillen part. (was not happy about this)

Front caliper install was straight-forward, only bit of advice being that you should
1: use the rubber bleed caps to temporarily plug the hard-line while routing the SS lines prior to connecting the system to temporarily stop the hemorrhaging
2: Despite my best effort wearing nitrile gloves... I got enough brake fluid on my hands to temporarily erase my finger-prints (no joke), so if petty theft if your thing, this could be a feasible method to conceal identity

The rear install was a PITA given both "trimming" the dust shield, and the way the bolts are configured to the carrier.

The supplied SS lines IMO are 1-2 inches too short, and thus have to travel a less than ideal route to the caliper (getting longer SS lines with banjo fittings from VAC)

Its been a bit too cold to do any spirited driving, but my initial impressions of the kit, aside from the above, are positive...

I was hoping to run apex 17 inch rims with these, but they(apex) tell me after using the template, that neither caliper CP 5555 or CP 5575 (the 6 pot fronts) will clear the 17 inch barrel (if anyone knows different let me know)
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      03-26-2014, 08:05 AM   #11
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Best modification I did for track use were the StopTech BBKs at all four corners.
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      03-31-2014, 04:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullerra View Post
So its been a couple months of extra shifts at work combined with several evenings cobbling things together in the garage, but it looks like things are shaping up for the spring.

AP Racing BBK is on, Evolve Airbox has arrived, and is awaiting an install along with the Schrick 288/280cams at VAC.

Some initial impressions of the BBK:

As most of you know, and that now includes me... Here in the US there is really one direct supplier of AP Racing kits, which is Essex.

I, however was unaware of this at the time, and purchased the kit from European Auto Source... who in-turn is supplied by Stillen.

A quick search of the inter-webs has me pretty pissed, as I've been swindled, getting some bargain bin items... fortunately first impressions are not always accurate

The front 6 pot kit is the same as the E46M3 kit with matching part numbers on the caliper and the rotor (rotor is the same as the Z4 kit). Both kits use their 5000 series caliper, which from what I can tell by looking at all of the different detailed spec sheets on the AP website is similar across the product range. And as the caliper I received was initially sourced for the E46M3, I was confident that the parts were not yesteryear's leftovers.

The rear caliper P/N was the same as specified in both kits E85/86 and E46.
The rear rotor, however, as far as I can tell, is a Stillen part. (was not happy about this)

Front caliper install was straight-forward, only bit of advice being that you should
1: use the rubber bleed caps to temporarily plug the hard-line while routing the SS lines prior to connecting the system to temporarily stop the hemorrhaging
2: Despite my best effort wearing nitrile gloves... I got enough brake fluid on my hands to temporarily erase my finger-prints (no joke), so if petty theft if your thing, this could be a feasible method to conceal identity

The rear install was a PITA given both "trimming" the dust shield, and the way the bolts are configured to the carrier.

The supplied SS lines IMO are 1-2 inches too short, and thus have to travel a less than ideal route to the caliper (getting longer SS lines with banjo fittings from VAC)

Its been a bit too cold to do any spirited driving, but my initial impressions of the kit, aside from the above, are positive...

I was hoping to run apex 17 inch rims with these, but they(apex) tell me after using the template, that neither caliper CP 5555 or CP 5575 (the 6 pot fronts) will clear the 17 inch barrel (if anyone knows different let me know)

Thanks for your impressions! Can I ask why you were hell bent on getting an AP Racing kit as opposed to StopTech, PFC, Brembo, Rotora (meh, maybe not??), Forge, etc? I'm asking because a kit is probably in my future.

And there's no way I'd want a Stillen rear rotor either, given the exclusivity of AP in North America (way more popular in Europe, obviously).

*Really* looking forward to hearing about the Evolve box/Schrick setup, as this is probably the ultimate "stock-ish" all motor setup. If it does 340whp, I'm sold.

TIA,
Zac
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      03-31-2014, 09:38 PM   #13
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Why was I so hellbent on the APs...obstinance would probably be the more accurate reason! I originally wanted to get something that first of all is functional, then durable and lastly a bit unique. AP, StopTech, and Brembo all make excellent products. Price is somewhat similar across the three, although a Brembo kit may be a bit more expensive, and I'm not entirely certain that they have a correctly biased kit (F to R) for the Z4. I can't say that I've been able to compare all three at the limit on track, but my guess is that any perceivable difference likely has more to do with the rotor, its ability to absorb and transfer heat, and your specific pad choice rather than the specific caliper (all are superior to single piston OE).

It's probably more a personal choice more than anything.

As for the cams/airbox.... target date is next week, or so I'm told by the guys at VAC.

Supposedly they are installing everything, uploading the "custom" tune from evolve that takes into account the prior engine mods ((Fabspeed headers, DKF section 1, RPI cans) yes my ears will be bleeding) then running it on the dyno and sending the info back to Evolve for fine tuning. Just as a word of caution though... they run a Mustang Dyno, that tends to read on the lower side for mustangs. For example, one of the guys told me a S65 motor stock will run about 310-320 whp whereas a stock S54 will run about 250whp.

Only time will tell!
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      04-02-2014, 09:02 AM   #14
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Very excited to see some dyno results!
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      04-03-2014, 02:33 AM   #15
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      04-03-2014, 02:42 PM   #16
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Same here! Thanks for the info. Good luck on that heartbreaker of a dyno lol!
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      04-03-2014, 10:10 PM   #17
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Thanks... i spoke to the guys at VAC , on schedule for Monday pickup!
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      04-04-2014, 03:38 PM   #18
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moral of the story?? unless your getting the official AP kits.. please don't buy from stillen/ certain venders, they basically mix mash parts to make a similar kit and its gives AP a poor name, i BELIEVE essex are the only guys selling proper AP uk kits... Not only do you get proper schematics with every kit, you get hand signed off parts with certificates, here in the uk the lead time for a z4m / m3 kit is 5 months.... This stuff is about as good as it gets, the brakes on my car are nothing short of astounding and when people ride along on the track its the FIRST thing they mention... Not the 500+hp....


if you US side stick with stop tech, performance friction ETC....
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      04-09-2014, 01:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Thanks... i spoke to the guys at VAC , on schedule for Monday pickup!
What's the word? Any updates?
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      04-09-2014, 06:02 PM   #20
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Okay guys

I picked the car up Monday as promised. There was a minor hiccup as the initial AFRs were reading too high (running too lean) on the initial run, so they backed off and did not do a full WOT test... A couple hrs later with a phone call, an updated file from the UK (aren't the inter-webs great) was e-mailed and uploaded.

Before I give the result, I will reiterate this dyno is a heart breaker. The guys at Turner told me my car will NOT break 300whp on a mustang, they've only seen 1 or 2 do it in the past, and that was with a fully built motor running increased displacement.

As a reference one of their previous projects a modified S65 was only able to muster 334whp on this dyno http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14249178

Additionally, A fresh S54 stock from a 2007 file on this dyno achieved 247whp and 207ft-lbs on this

(through some backwards quasi-math that equates to about a 25% drive line loss on both)

Needless to say, I wasn't hopeful.
That is until I saw the sheet

305whp with 225 ft - lbs torque peak around 7800rpm. They did not run it to fuel cut-off which was re-configured to around 8100rpm. Unfortunately, they did not get a run prior to the cams, airbox and software (was already running ess)

Initial impressions are that this is LOUD. Granted, I knew this was going to be the case with airbox, headers, DKF and RPI... but this is on another level!

This morning was the first time I got to take it out and open it up a bit, as its been raining the past couple of days.

The idle is nice and lumpy with the cams... lets you know that terror awaits your right foot. Trolling around town under 3000rpm is loud enough to turn some heads and evoke a chirp from nearby car alarms. My initial thoughts about highway merges, and 3rd gear acceleration was that it was certainly loud enough to erase any childhood memories you previously had, but gains in acceleration were not that noticeable... was a bit disappointed until I looked down and saw that DSC was lighting up like an X-mas tree! (granted these tires suck, and were temporarily put on to pass inspection) Turn this bad-boy off, wait until some clearing in traffic and Woosh! All hell breaks loose when the right foot finds the floor. I now feel comfortable saying this beast is fast, as opposed to "quick". with the combination of induction and exhaust note, this thing screams. Previously, on track I have felt the motor loose some zest
after 7000rpm, inviting me for a short-shift, no more, it just gets faster and faster! (in an attempt to save this goodness we wont be shifting at redline too often)

In a word... Geezus...
Would I have gotten more power with FI, yeah, probably, but having a NA motor make 125 hp/L for me is worth it, especially in the Paddock with all the P-guys wondering what just happened
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      04-09-2014, 06:05 PM   #21
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      04-10-2014, 01:38 AM   #22
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very impressive!!! enjoy!!
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