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      05-22-2009, 03:00 PM   #1
jragan
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Track Rubber

So my Nitto NT01 R-Comps are finally worn out so now I have a decision to make.

Being as these tires will only be for track use, I thought I'd open up some discussion on thoughts for replacements.

Here are the options:
  • Nitto NT01 R-Comps
    • Pluses -
      • Generally a great tire
      • Great wear characteristics and a gradual fall off at grip-limit without completely turning loose.
    • Negatives -
      • Comparatively pricey
      • Wears quickly
      • Wet performance almost nil (although I've yet to run in the wet)
  • Dunlop Direzza Star-Specs
    • Pluses -
      • Nearly R-Comp performance
      • Comparatively cheap
      • I run these as my daily driving tires as well, on my oem wheels, so I'd have essentially an extra set for emergencies
      • Can run in the wet
    • Minuses -
      • Not quite as sticky as R-Comps
  • Bridgestone RE-05?
    • Pluses -
      • Latest generation tire
      • ???
    • Minuses -
      • ???
  • ???
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      05-22-2009, 04:16 PM   #2
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BFG R1's. I moved from the NT01 to them and ran the past year with them. Notable improved in braking and acceleration traction. Cornering is more stable as well.
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      05-23-2009, 07:38 AM   #3
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JRagan:

You may want to consider the Bridgestone (www.BridgestoneTire.com) RE-01 or the newest RE-11. These are about as close to an "R" compound tire as you will find.

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      05-23-2009, 09:52 AM   #4
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My latest edition of Grass Roots Motorsports tested a bunch of tires....non-R-Comps and found the Kumho Ecsta XS the fastest around their autocross course....beating out the Star-specs, RE-01s, RE-11s, and a few others.

Definitely not conclusive, but seems to demonstrate that the Kumhos are a good tire and are fairly inexpensive.
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      05-23-2009, 10:16 AM   #5
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You should check out the Toyo Proxes 888. It's the new generation of the RA1 tire. I started using them this year and they are a great track tire. I got them from a place called Appalachian Race Tire - you can find them easily on the web - great prices and they can shave them for you if you want.
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      05-25-2009, 10:16 PM   #6
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I just corded a set of Yoko Advan Neova AD07 tires. They grip well and last forever. The first 75% of life they ran good in the wet. The last 25% not so good. Kept their dry grip through the life of the tire and always heated up quickly.

The "Dark Side" is that they are pricey.....and HEAVY.

I'll probably go to Toyo R888s the next set.
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      05-25-2009, 11:11 PM   #7
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I'm looking at getting some Advan AD-08 next or some Bridgestone RE-11's... I've heard that both of those are pretty good for our cars as they're better for a heavier car compared to some others. Guess we'll see....
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      05-28-2009, 05:05 PM   #8
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      05-28-2009, 07:33 PM   #9
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kumho xs ...
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      06-02-2009, 05:47 PM   #10
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Thanks for everyone's responses, I went with a "known" and had the Direzza StarSpecs mounted. Interestingly enough, for the same size rear tire, the Nittos appear to have had a much wider cross section than the Direzzas. The Nittos looked "just right" on my 10"-wide track Enkeis, whereas the Direzzas look stretched.
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      06-06-2009, 05:35 PM   #11
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After getting them warmed up (and getting pressures right) the Direzzas performed great. I even got moved up to the advanced run group today!
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      06-06-2009, 09:59 PM   #12
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So they were better than your Nittos?
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      06-07-2009, 11:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4MCJJ View Post
So they were better than your Nittos?
I'm not an expert driver, but if I were, I'm sure I could make use of the Nitto's slightly stickier compound and wider cross section. As it was, I definitely didn't lose any time. Although, I really can't stress enough, once you're even the slightest bit comfortable with the Zed, you need to turn of DSC. Especially on a very technical/tight track, the DSC will do nothing but hurt you. It won't save or help you, instead it will make things more dangerous as it adds to the understeer and can even simulate lifting off the throttle in a high speed turn, which will take you right off the track. My first run of the day, I kept DSC on so I could get used to the tires and it was the worst mistake I could have made. I was all over the place, and even went 4 wheels off the track. So what I learned is to turn DSC OFF and really push the warm up lap hard to warm up the tires.
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      06-08-2009, 01:57 AM   #14
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The DSC is a great learning tool. I keep it on sometime just to practice being smooth. I like to see how close I can come to my fastest laptime with the DSC on.

A good drill would be to keep DSC on and still try to be fast with it. DSC only kicks in if you lose traction. If you are smooth there are few places that it would kick in. If you keep sport mode off and be smooth with the throttle there is less chance the DSC will kick in. DSC is more active with street tires because they don't have as much grip as R-compounds.

I agree that DSC should be off with an advanced driver but if it's kicking in all over the track then I would keep it on and use it to be smooth.
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      06-08-2009, 10:20 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversprint View Post
The DSC is a great learning tool. I keep it on sometime just to practice being smooth. I like to see how close I can come to my fastest laptime with the DSC on.

A good drill would be to keep DSC on and still try to be fast with it. DSC only kicks in if you lose traction. If you are smooth there are few places that it would kick in. If you keep sport mode off and be smooth with the throttle there is less chance the DSC will kick in. DSC is more active with street tires because they don't have as much grip as R-compounds.

I agree that DSC should be off with an advanced driver but if it's kicking in all over the track then I would keep it on and use it to be smooth.
I used to whole heartedly agree with your comments about DSC (I never turn Sport On), and maybe I still do in a general sense, but I really feel it all depends on the track layout. My instructors have always complimented me on my smoothness and I'm more apt to think other drivers on the track are very green and just really slow before I even consider the fact that it might actually be me who's really fast, so I'm not coming at this like some know-it-all prick. But my experience is that for track layouts that are both tight (lots of curves, very few straights) and very technical (off-camber or up-hill or combos or all of the above in multiple corners), DSC will do much more harm than good if you're pushing the car at all. In some cases, the car really does not know better.
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      06-08-2009, 10:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jragan View Post
I used to whole heartedly agree with your comments about DSC (I never turn Sport On), and maybe I still do in a general sense, but I really feel it all depends on the track layout. My instructors have always complimented me on my smoothness and I'm more apt to think other drivers on the track are very green and just really slow before I even consider the fact that it might actually be me who's really fast, so I'm not coming at this like some know-it-all prick. But my experience is that for track layouts that are both tight (lots of curves, very few straights) and very technical (off-camber or up-hill or combos or all of the above in multiple corners), DSC will do much more harm than good if you're pushing the car at all. In some cases, the car really does not know better.
I agree. From what I have noticed with DSC on my times have been considerably slower than if it is off. Nevertheless, I have it on on my first run and then off the rest of the day. Sort of a protective measure against my lack of driving experience. Oversteer is very easy with this car, especially exiting tight turns.
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      06-08-2009, 10:35 AM   #17
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Specifically, in the layout above (running counter clock wise), Horseshoe is off-camber and up-hill and takes a lot of power to muscle up. The car will drift out some and if you combine this with the need to have power-on, DSC will kill you because it detects the slip and cuts all throttle. You could be going ten miles an hour, and the DSC would still incorrectly kick in here.

Tracking-Out of Horseshoe through the remaining turns in that combination (Boot Hill and Tombstone), when perfectly smooth and done correctly, you should never actually have to adjust the wheel past your initial turn in as it's one constant arc and you should be on the gas, full throttle, THROUGH tombstone. Again, DSC doesn't like any amount of power on through this curve and will "lift" the throttle and apply the rear brakes while you're apexing and send you right off the track.

The real twisty Rattle Snake section is rather DSC-neutral as you're not powering through the curves, but I do find that having DSC off allows me to throttle-steer the back end where I want it to set up for the next curve (whereas with DSC on, the only control you have is of the front wheels...kinda).
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      06-21-2009, 06:55 AM   #18
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Hello!
first Ive got the dunlops, and really like them. Ive put 7 track days on them and used them as daily drivers for about 7k. I got another set of stocks for the street this spring so now I am thinking about getting a tire trailer and some R comps....

Second, I was just telling my self two weeks ago at the track that I needed to De-wusify myself and turn the DSC off, and plan to at my next event.
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      06-22-2009, 05:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwank View Post
Hello!
first Ive got the dunlops, and really like them. Ive put 7 track days on them and used them as daily drivers for about 7k. I got another set of stocks for the street this spring so now I am thinking about getting a tire trailer and some R comps....

Second, I was just telling my self two weeks ago at the track that I needed to De-wusify myself and turn the DSC off, and plan to at my next event.
7 track days and you haven't turned DSC off? It's alright.. You'll be fine.

Every time you start a track day, even on a familiar track, do a few fast laps with DSC on... gauge where DSC comes into play. Then you will feel comfortable taking it off for the remainder of your track day. The M Coupe is a blast to drive as you already know. But it's annoying when DSC cuts power here and there and you know you have sufficient space to push it more (ie walls, tires barriers are further away)
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