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      04-05-2011, 04:10 PM   #89
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stay strong my friend and I'm sure that you will but if anything happens to Carlos, I just hope that you will be the first person to be always there for him
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      04-05-2011, 05:16 PM   #90
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Wow, God bless. Hope everyone turns out alright.
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      04-05-2011, 06:18 PM   #91
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Fuck that is awful. I'm sorry to hear

Best recovery to you and your friend, thankfully you were in a safe car.
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      04-05-2011, 06:52 PM   #92
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Keep your head up bud. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
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      04-05-2011, 08:57 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMcanadian View Post
All the best to you dude. In a sense, your post is relieving to me. In a world where most people take the easy way out, on far less serious issues, by placing the blame on anyone/anything but themselves, it's nice to see that some people are still accountable for their actions. Sadly, people like yourself seem to be harder to come by these days. This attitude demonstrates maturity far beyond your years and will garner you a tremendous amount of respect in your life. Hoping everything works out well for everyone involved. Keep your chin up.
Well said, I hope things work out for him and his friend.
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      04-06-2011, 01:56 AM   #94
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To the original poster: From all the various types of responses I've read... it seems for a 17 yr old... you're quite mature. I don't think a there's much more you can do if you're too hot into a corner and hit gravel or loose sand at that point, from what I know...it appears that there is no longer a driver and passenger situation...it's just two passengers until the car slows down and gets traction or hits an object.

I disagree with some members that you shouldn't give a teenager a M coupe or X car. I believe anyone can hurt themselves in a yugo or a supercar. I think just last year for local SoCal folks heard the news of an adult driving a supercar costing $200K+ on PCH and crashing into tow truck and died instantly in flames both the driver and passenger.

If I had a kid..I would rather give him or her a sport bike than a scooter or moped. The moped is a death machine... too slow to brake, and too slow to accelerate out of a problem...no handling. Sport bike you can lean your way out of trouble of a car cutting into your lane, braking, or speeding your way out. Same goes with a sports car or super car vs a yugo or corolla. Either cars can go to terminal speeds...it's down to the driver's ability to drive without getting into trouble. It doesn't sound like reckless driving...but a little bit of not spotting the road conditions....accidents happens...just learn from it.

3rd gear low rpms is about 40 to 50 mph... my estimate. If you couldn't save it with a M...than another other car you would be worse shape. I'm sure as the driver you have more guilt than you ever thought you want to deal with...but the positive side is that you're both alive and didn't take anyone else out. It's a learning experience to grow from. Glad to read you're both getting better!
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      04-06-2011, 02:40 AM   #95
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sad..that must have been so close..i hope u guys are fine now..
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      04-06-2011, 07:33 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imom View Post
If I had a kid..I would rather give him or her a sport bike than a scooter or moped. The moped is a death machine... too slow to brake, and too slow to accelerate out of a problem...no handling. Sport bike you can lean your way out of trouble of a car cutting into your lane, braking, or speeding your way out. Same goes with a sports car or super car vs a yugo or corolla. Either cars can go to terminal speeds...it's down to the driver's ability to drive without getting into trouble. It doesn't sound like reckless driving...but a little bit of not spotting the road conditions....accidents happens...just learn from it.
Gotta disagree with this point. I have a TGB 150cc Scooter which I have ridden over 11K miles. This is in the heart of Atlanta with lots of traffic congestion so have had lots of "close calls". IMO the scooter has plenty of umph and handles like no motorcycle can due to the extremely low center of gravity. It handles amazingly well and brakes on a dime too. On top of this, it is much easier to get off of in a no win situation as I am not hugging the bike with my legs. I wear full protective gear at all times.

I would recommend one for kids. No passengers, great fuel economy, top speed 65mph...

A sport bike and a teenager is just asking for trouble IMO...

As for the OP. I found it interesting he stated: "There was absolutely no racing around or anything of the type. It was a lack of traction." (with no mention of the speed limit) and we later find the SL was 35 and he was driving 50mph on the windy, narrow section of road...
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      04-06-2011, 07:38 AM   #97
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Nice pickup!
I love these wheels on the Coupe.
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      04-06-2011, 07:49 AM   #98
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50 in a 35 is nothing in a coupe. Its not an obscene rate of speed by any means, just a bad judgement call if the road did have as much debris as in the picture.

In my experience, on a clear road the posted speed limit seems to be about half of what the car can handle. If he was doing 50 he wasn't doing anything crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickdr View Post
Gotta disagree with this point. I have a TGB 150cc Scooter which I have ridden over 11K miles. This is in the heart of Atlanta with lots of traffic congestion so have had lots of "close calls". IMO the scooter has plenty of umph and handles like no motorcycle can due to the extremely low center of gravity. It handles amazingly well and brakes on a dime too. On top of this, it is much easier to get off of in a no win situation as I am not hugging the bike with my legs. I wear full protective gear at all times.

I would recommend one for kids. No passengers, great fuel economy, top speed 65mph...

A sport bike and a teenager is just asking for trouble IMO...

As for the OP. I found it interesting he stated: "There was absolutely no racing around or anything of the type. It was a lack of traction." (with no mention of the speed limit) and we later find the SL was 35 and he was driving 50mph on the windy, narrow section of road...
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      04-06-2011, 07:51 AM   #99
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As a guy who had a 400cc street bike at 17 and who is now a 40-something dad, I say sure - get your teenage son a 1100cc sport bike if you want to see him killed or maimed for life.

The power to weight ratio of one of these things is such that its performance peotential would have made it suitable to race professionally 15 years ago, as a stock out of the box item.

While a 17 year old can be relatively mature, they are still 17 year olds - bad judgment and tons of testosterone. I was a bit of a wimp but I still did things that could have got me killed easily. One guy I knew managed to do that.

At 17, sensible as you may think you are, you simply do not have the skills or the experience to handle such a machine. And if you disagree, I'll say a prayer for you.
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      04-06-2011, 07:54 AM   #100
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Oh and to the other poster mentioning the sportbike vs scooter... You are NUTS for even remotely contemplating giving a sportbike to a teenager. Your logic is flawed, not to mention you'd be putting the kid in SERIOUS harms way. They have enough to think about when first learning the rules and ways of the road, much less on a bike of any kind. I'd be willing to bet you don't ride yourself, or you'd already know this.

Faster bike just means he can put himself into trouble faster, and I don't mean with the law. The more power and speed the bike is capable of the less forgiving they are. Same with hitting this tree. Had they hit it on a bike, you can forget about it. Any car is way more forgiving than a bike and that's what teenagers belong in.
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      04-06-2011, 07:56 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huz-Z View Post
As a guy who had a 400cc street bike at 17 and who is now a 40-something dad, I say sure - get your teenage son a 1100cc sport bike if you want to see him killed or maimed for life.

The power to weight ratio of one of these things is such that its performance peotential would have made it suitable to race professionally 15 years ago, as a stock out of the box item.

While a 17 year old can be relatively mature, they are still 17 year olds - bad judgment and tons of testosterone. I was a bit of a wimp but I still did things that could have got me killed easily. One guy I knew managed to do that.

At 17, sensible as you may think you are, you simply do not have the skills or the experience to handle such a machine. And if you disagree, I'll say a prayer for you.
You beat me to it bud.
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      04-06-2011, 11:04 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Nice pickup!
I love these wheels on the Coupe.
Wrong thread?

A sportbike for a teenager is a much much worse idea than a scooter. Wow, can't believe anyone would actually think that was better. Must not be a rider himself.
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      04-06-2011, 11:34 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huz-Z View Post
As a guy who had a 400cc street bike at 17 and who is now a 40-something dad, I say sure - get your teenage son a 1100cc sport bike if you want to see him killed or maimed for life.

The power to weight ratio of one of these things is such that its performance peotential would have made it suitable to race professionally 15 years ago, as a stock out of the box item.

While a 17 year old can be relatively mature, they are still 17 year olds - bad judgment and tons of testosterone. I was a bit of a wimp but I still did things that could have got me killed easily. One guy I knew managed to do that.

At 17, sensible as you may think you are, you simply do not have the skills or the experience to handle such a machine. And if you disagree, I'll say a prayer for you.
+1 Same age. Same viewpoint. Same current situation. Same motorcycle when I was 17, except mine was 500cc.

-Eric
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      04-06-2011, 11:36 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
Wrong thread?

A sportbike for a teenager is a much much worse idea than a scooter. Wow, can't believe anyone would actually think that was better. Must not be a rider himself.
As someone who made the foolish decision as a 17 year old to purchase a sportbike, this is one of the wisest things that has been said about sportbikes and bikes in general. Sportbikes are fun toys, but definitely not something that should be in the hands of a teenager, and most definitely not something on which someone learns to ride.
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      04-06-2011, 11:52 AM   #105
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I've got a 3 year old right now...IF I still have all three cars in the garage right now by the time she's ready to drive, I wouldn't hesitate to hand her the keys to the Subaru. Because at the time it will be absolutely worthless and it's got just as good of crash protection as the MZ4 Coupe. I would never give her the keys to my MZ4 Coupe because it'll likely be fairly valuable then.

The ONLY problem I have with giving young drivers very nice cars, is that they'll eventually wreck it. Knowing that, I would never give my daughter the nicer cars in the family to wreck. If she must wreck something, I'd rather she wreck my "economy" car.

Honestly, at that age, you don't know what trouble is until it happens. By all accounts I was an honors student, straight forward and accountable, and don't do stupid stuff when I was 17. Yet I had no idea what "inches away from death" means at the time.

p.s.: Not directed at the OP in any way, just random rant based on some of the tangent that this post has gone off in.
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      04-06-2011, 12:03 PM   #106
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The issue is not as much about the capabilities of the machine. It is possible to cause serious harm to one's self with a power tool, or even a screwdriver. It is about the attitudes that are inherently invoked when one is operating a high performance driving machine. If you are driving a high performance car, you are much more likely to engage in risky behaviours and mismanage risk. It's not about the thing itself, it's about how the thing is likely to make you behave. This applies to adults/older people as well, but, in general, they have a better sense of assesing risk due to experience. (I say in general because some adults are not capable of assessing and managing risk either). For that reason, I would do whatever I can to keep my children from operating such machinery at a young age--regardless of how mature they might be relative to their peers. There is simply no point in allowing such a thing to happen. They can wait a few years. Sports cars and bikes will be around.
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      04-06-2011, 12:29 PM   #107
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A hell of an accident for sure, especially at 'just' 50 mph or even less. It doesn't even look wet...

Best wishes to you both in any case!

I'm reminded again to drive carefully always. These cars certainly do tempt you.
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      04-06-2011, 12:34 PM   #108
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17 = risk is what others are doing.
17 = I will live till 18, and won't die before that.
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      04-06-2011, 01:02 PM   #109
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Someone Quoted me earlier on why I specified there was no racing around. A friend of mine that was driving to lunch with us has a blacked out Nissan Maxima, the other person there has an old, lifted, yellow jeep. "Witnesses" (quotes because few actually SAW anything, they only heard my exhaust and skidding) near the scene claimed racing could have been involved.

1) the Nissan was behind the jeep about 1/4 mile behind me.

2) the driver of the Nissan is the most careful, honest, responsible guy I know.

3) why would I be racing a maxima and a jeep.

I mentioned that because speculation on the news article comments has led to some nasty nick hogan comparisons and other remarks of similar nature. There was no racing around involved because there was NO racing around. They were behind me, I was in front of them. That's it.
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      04-06-2011, 01:25 PM   #110
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From the other thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diokaef View Post
When I went to CA, SSK92 and me met at a car group meting one of the nights and to be honest, for his age he looked and spoke very responsibly, his line of thought was clear minded and nothing like a guy that would be racing around. This is an unfortunate event and S*** happens, I really don't think he was abusing on his driving, I really believe he may had at that moment judged the road condition wrong but To crucify him as being irresponsible may just be a little out of line. Some people mature much faster and he seams like one of those. he is too educated to be doing S***** around.

I really wish no drastic consequences comes out of this happening, But just one more learn experience.
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