My oil analysis and rod bearings changed

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

My window sticker says country of origin engine and transmission: Germany
final assembly point Spartanburg SC, USA
Thanks!

That eliminates a possibility. The diligence over time post crisis mode is still viable. Not provable. But typical in terms of human behavior.

Yeah, as far as I know, all S54 engines were built in Germany and shipped to Spartanburg for assembly. It's interesting that the S54 bearings still were problematic in the Z4M after the issues with the S54 in the M3. Some speculated that a design change in the S54 engine for the Z4M would have constituted an admission of guilt by BMW, so they left the journals the same width as in the M3. Lots of speculation involved in these discussions

Anyway, here is a cool video of the rod bearings being assembled in an S54. Wouldn't it be cool to have that pneumatic dual torque wrench? It's also interesting that unless they didn't show the step, there are no multiple torque tightening procedures during initial assembly. Just crank it down to a specific torque, but they are doing both bolts at the same time. That's probably the difference.

3 minute mark is where the rod bearings are tightened. Timing set at around 5:20. Valve shims at 6:40. Note no assembly lube is used on the floor...just oil.

Lots of good material in the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=ZjFVV5HXU0Q

Salty

[yousefnjr]

Doesn’t S65 have the same issue? There are no “safe” S54’s imo

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Doesn’t S65 have the same issue? There are no “safe” S54’s imo

Yes, the S65 (and S85 from which the S65 is derived if I recall) has this issue. No lead in those S65 bearings either, so there's no warning flags. (Note, I'm not sure if the no lead is all or just replacement bearings.)

[rockstar93]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Yes, the S65 (and S85 from which the S65 is derived if I recall) has this issue. No lead in those S65 bearings either, so there's no warning flags. (Note, I'm not sure if the no lead is all or just replacement bearings.)

IIRC the bearing composition was changed on E9X M3's in MY11. Prior to 2011 bearing wear is more easily detectable because of the lead. No evidence that the bearing composition quickened or slowed the wear.

[yousefnjr]

Should figure out what Porsche does with the GT3. I think I remember hearing their engineer say that they run a ton of oil pressure in the new 4.0

Edit — just watched that video again, it’s actually the opposite. They run low oil pressure, have bigger main bearings, and sounds like they have oil coming out of holes in the con rod journals? Can’t remember if ours does that. Watch vid below @ 11:40

Double edit — yeah ours does too. Maybe GT3 eats bearings too lol

[Andyh1]

Great thread... I will be adding to this conversation soon, next weekend I will be doing my oil change. I have been using Liqui Molly 10w60 with Liqui Molly Nos2. We will see what comes back from the lab.. Sitting at 29K

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

and sounds like they have oil coming out of holes in the con rod journals?

Sounds to me that he describes that the rodbearings are fed by oil which is pumped through drilled passages in the crank.... Like every automotive engine has had for the last 50 years?

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Doesn’t S65 have the same issue? There are no “safe” S54’s imo

I think the S65 takes the prize for the worst rod bearing problems. Some were toast after crazy short mileage.

Salty

[elerner61]

Mine is going in to my indy for bearings tomorrow at 68.5K miles. Just not willing to roll the dice anymore every time I drive it.

For sh#ts and grins I called the dealer to get a quote from them. The service advisor called me back and told me $9300. I said "thank you for your time". Even if they assumed a crank replacement as part of the service I don't know if it would have come to that much $$. I didn't want to spend any add'l time on the phone with them investigating what work the quote covered.

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by elerner61

Mine is going in to my indy for bearings tomorrow at 68.5K miles. Just not willing to roll the dice anymore every time I drive it.

For sh#ts and grins I called the dealer to get a quote from them. The service advisor called me back and told me $9300. I said "thank you for your time". Even if they assumed a crank replacement as part of the service I don't know if it would have come to that much $$. I didn't want to spend any add'l time on the phone with them investigating what work the quote covered.

If any are comfortable, could you provide us with the appx cost if completed by an indy??

[Azeka1]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

If any are comfortable, could you provide us with the appx cost if completed by an indy??

For just my rod bearing service last week at TYSpeed in NJ, it was 10 hours of labor for a total of $1,050. ECS tuning WPC rod bearing kit was an additional $675. Hope this helps and I highly recommend this shop if anyone is in the area!

[StickMon]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

If any are comfortable, could you provide us with the appx cost if completed by an indy??

Yea, I think in general you're looking at $1600-$1800 from an indy with parts and labor.

[racerbruce]

Thank you to Azeka1 and StickMon for the cost info.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Azeka1

For just my rod bearing service last week at TYSpeed in NJ, it was 10 hours of labor for a total of $1,050. ECS tuning WPC rod bearing kit was an additional $675. Hope this helps and I highly recommend this shop if anyone is in the area!

That's in the same price range as here in California. Parts price went way up recently. Stickmon gives a good range.

That dealer must have been replacing the flux capacitor and blinker fluid in addition to the bearings.

[elerner61]

My indy must be better than yours, he charged $2,300. Only guy near me I trust though. 68K miles and glad to have it done in time for top-down season to start (any day now). My last Blackstone reported 34ppm Lead but zero Copper (I got lazy and missed two oil changes/two years of having it analyzed though). From my pics I would have thought I'd have non-zero Copper.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by elerner61

My indy must be better than yours, he charged $2,300. Only guy near me I trust though. 68K miles and glad to have it done in time for top-down season to start (any day now). My last Blackstone reported 34ppm Lead but zero Copper (I got lazy and missed two oil changes/two years of having it analyzed though). From my pics I would have thought I'd have non-zero Copper.

That is the best looking bearings put up on this thread thus far

[elerner61]

Originally Posted by XMetal

That is the best looking bearings put up on this thread thus far

Still, they're not looking good. Here's my use info:
- Live in NorthEast (New York City suburb)
- Car not tracked or auto-crossed, enthusiast driven
- Drive the car all year round (down to 20 deg. F)
- Annual oil changes at 7.5K miles or less (always in Fall, before cold weather)
- Castrol TWS
- No cold engine drives shorter than 20 minutes
- Engine run period of 2 mins before driving on cold start
- No engine revs over 3K until engine is at 165 deg. F
- No "fun" driving until engine is fully warmed up.

It is what it is. So happy to be driving it again. Now I just need to avoid the melting snow/salted road water runoff in March. Would be nice if we had a warm, dry March like we did last year. After this Wednesday's snow storm that is.

[SaltyNC]

Originally Posted by elerner61

My indy must be better than yours, he charged $2,300. Only guy near me I trust though. 68K miles and glad to have it done in time for top-down season to start (any day now). My last Blackstone reported 34ppm Lead but zero Copper (I got lazy and missed two oil changes/two years of having it analyzed though). From my pics I would have thought I'd have non-zero Copper.

It is weird how in all these oil analyses, we see bearings showing a lot of copper, and it doesn't show up in their report. Could it be the copper doesn't wear from the bearing the same way the lead wears away? It seems like there would at least be a little rise in copper, but it doesn't happen.

Agree, your bearings look good in comparison to others. I'll be doing mine very soon. I've been honing my mechanical abilities on my son's 330Ci.

Salty

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by SaltyNC

It is weird how in all these oil analyses, we see bearings showing a lot of copper, and it doesn't show up in their report. Could it be the copper doesn't wear from the bearing the same way the lead wears away? It seems like there would at least be a little rise in copper, but it doesn't happen.

Agree, your bearings look good in comparison to others. I'll be doing mine very soon. I've been honing my mechanical abilities on my son's 330Ci.

Salty

Good question. Wondering the same thing too.

[XMetal]

This is the quote I got from Blackstone when I asked the same question about copper:

"We would expect copper to start rising too once the lead layer has worn away. The pictures of the bearings you sent clearly have reached the copper layer in some of them, but maybe your engine was making metal that's bigger than our machines can read (we look at the microscopic metal). Hopefully, lead will stay low going forward now that you've replaced the rod bearings."

What I got from their response is that copper might be wearing away in larger chunks and therefore gets trapped in the oil filter and thus doesn't show up in their machine that only looks at things at a microscopic level? Does this make sense?

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by elerner61

For sh#ts and grins I called the dealer to get a quote from them. The service advisor called me back and told me $9300.

Wow.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Wow.

Especially if you think about that changing rodbearings is about 1 day of work tops for a trained mechanic. Add in about $900 on parts (1 half of a bearing is $37,-, which is pretty excessive), but even then they thus charge $1000,-/hour....

For $9300 you can almost expect a new engine....