Z4 M Evolve-R Group Buy

johanness · 10-29-2012, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tikamak

After a few chats, i do not trust any other tuner, i will have him tune my ESS vt2-500.

So you wouldn't have the creator of the unit your buying do the tuning (despite multiple reports of flawless AFR readings with ESS's tunes AND the fact that they have been tuning our cars much longer than Evolve)??

On the heels of Zuby's issues, good luck with that.

tikamak · 10-30-2012, 12:45 AM

Still thinking about it mate, there an extra cost involved here since I need to send them the ECU

inTgr8r · 10-30-2012, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tikamak

Still thinking about it mate, there an extra cost involved here since I need to send them the ECU

IIRC, ESS has the plugin programmer now, same as the others

Beedub · 10-30-2012, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tikamak

Still thinking about it mate, there an extra cost involved here since I need to send them the ECU

no no no no imo.... ok so.... can i ask why you want evolve to tune this??? why not just ask ess to do an all out power tune with your kit, your paying for a tune so?? why pay again somewhere else....???

Now.... be warned, its very easy to lean out the tune/advance the timing and get more power.... lean = heat.... heat = problems...., personally i think its much more difficult to get the all round tune, driveability, power and reliability.... how many ESs VT cars with the stock tune have failed over ALL these years??? afaik... none???

the AFR is 11.3-4ish, yes slightly conservative.... but Still in the meat of the range where we want to be..... Were really pushing alot of components by throwing 7-8Lbs + boost at things... still on stock fuel pumps, FPR.... Headline power is imo NOT the most important goal, its useable SAFE power.......

Evolve are fantastic people...... BUT imo.... they shouldnt be tuning other people s/c kits, not only that if you do, ESS will probably not even enter into a conversation with you afterwards if any issues arise/general support issues. Think long and hard about that.....

inTgr8r · 10-30-2012, 08:51 AM

^words of wisdom.

tikamak · 10-30-2012, 10:59 AM

I am thinking about it. thanks byron.

johanness · 10-30-2012, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tikamak

Still thinking about it mate, there an extra cost involved here since I need to send them the ECU

Btw, doubtful you'd have to do that as you should be able to use their E-Flash USB-OBD programmer.

Rated M Roadster · 10-30-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johanness

Btw, doubtful you'd have to do that as you should be able to use their E-Flash USB-OBD programmer.

ESS won't do remote/flash tuning for an SC (at least when I talked to them last).

johanness · 10-31-2012, 01:55 AM

Yeah I thought they changed that when they went from the DirectFlash model to this one. Dunno

kennyfrc · 11-03-2012, 11:23 PM

Not what I expected but at this point the tune is showing a loss and I have emailed evolve who requested info on the dyno correction factor. AFR seems rich to me and I lost power over the entire curve compare to them OEM tune. I am going back to the dyno next week to test the evolve and OEM tune back to back.

Beedub · 11-04-2012, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johanness

Yeah I thought they changed that when they went from the DirectFlash model to this one. Dunno

Correct.... They will now. Shame it doesn't work on macs :-(

ajw45 · 11-05-2012, 10:21 PM

Finally got the dyno done post tune:
- Stock 07 z4m ~ 55k miles
- Same dyno for both runs
- Dyno conditions were hot and humid for the stock run, cool and damp for the post tune run
- About 500 miles of adaptation time with no service, oil changes, etc.

It's hard to make an apples to apples comparison since the stock tune seemed to be pulling timing/dumping fuel at high rpm but it looks like the tune gains a few rwhp and rwtq across the range.

kennyfrc · 11-06-2012, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajw45

Finally got the dyno done post tune:
- Stock 07 z4m ~ 55k miles
- Same dyno for both runs
- Dyno conditions were hot and humid for the stock run, cool and damp for the post tune run
- About 500 miles of adaptation time with no service, oil changes, etc.

It's hard to make an apples to apples comparison since the stock tune seemed to be pulling timing/dumping fuel at high rpm but it looks like the tune gains a few rwhp and rwtq across the range.

Looks like the evolve tune is very rich compared to your OEM.

ajw45 · 11-06-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyfrc

Looks like the evolve tune is very rich compared to your OEM.

Yeah. Considering it is making more power everywhere I'm not sure if richer than OEM is a good or bad thing. I've heard that the sniffer usually read a little low so going under 12 a/f at the tailpipe does sound less than optimal. Thoughts? Does anyone know the target AFR that Evolve is trying to hit or what makes the best power on the S54?

flipm3 · 11-06-2012, 05:43 PM

Very interesting seeing these dynos. The shape of the curve of the Z4M is so different compared to the E46 M3, at least based off all your stock and tuned runs.

Would any of you mind emailing me your DRF files for me to take a closer look before I make any conclusions?

In regards to AFR targets. I have seen a wide variety, but if I recall, they try to target mid 12s to low 13s.

ajw45 · 11-06-2012, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipm3

Very interesting seeing these dynos. The shape of the curve of the Z4M is so different compared to the E46 M3, at least based off all your stock and tuned runs.

Would any of you mind emailing me your DRF files for me to take a closer look before I make any conclusions?

In regards to AFR targets. I have seen a wide variety, but if I recall, they try to target mid 12s to low 13s.

Happy to! PM me your email address. I also asked the dyno guys if they have any e46 M3 files they can send me for comparison....

kennyfrc · 11-06-2012, 07:06 PM

At this point my car is been programmed back to OEM!

kennyfrc · 11-06-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyfrc

Not what I expected but at this point the tune is showing a loss and I have emailed evolve who requested info on the dyno correction factor. AFR seems rich to me and I lost power over the entire curve compare to them OEM tune. I am going back to the dyno next week to test the evolve and OEM tune back to back.

Just to clarify the Evolve tune runs range between 293-295 WHP.

OEM Tune runs all show over 300WHP and over 240TQ.

johanness · 11-06-2012, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajw45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyfrc

Looks like the evolve tune is very rich compared to your OEM.

Yeah. Considering it is making more power everywhere I'm not sure if richer than OEM is a good or bad thing. I've heard that the sniffer usually read a little low so going under 12 a/f at the tailpipe does sound less than optimal. Thoughts? Does anyone know the target AFR that Evolve is trying to hit or what makes the best power on the S54?

3 Evolve tunes. 3 running too rich. Looks like Evolve didn't get it right. Can't compare tuning an E46 to these cars in any way

inTgr8r · 11-07-2012, 06:07 AM

It would be nice to see more data.
Is there anyone showing positive results ?

JM2C but if I had one of these tunes I'd be checking my a/f ratio based on what's been posted so far.

kennyfrc · 11-07-2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

It would be nice to see more data.
Is there anyone showing positive results ?

JM2C but if I had one of these tunes I'd be checking my a/f ratio based on what's been posted so far.

EVERYONE who bought the Evolve tune should dyno test it.

The throttle mapping of the Evolve tune gives you the percepetion that it works. However, I find with most car forums people will give something postive reviews if it "Feels Good" or "Sounds Good" and never actually TEST IT.

We may never know.........

flipm3 · 11-07-2012, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johanness

3 Evolve tunes. 3 running too rich. Looks like Evolve didn't get it right. Can't compare tuning an E46 to these cars in any way

I have been very curious about some of the results people have been posting here because I am very active in the E46 M3 community. Many M3Forum members have sent me their own dyno results from their E46 M3 Evolve Tunes and every single one has shown consistent positive results.

As you said, I am starting to believe that the tuning for the Z4M could be very well different compared to the E46 M3.

If anyone wants to educate me more on Z4M tuning, I am always open to learning more

Quote:

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

It would be nice to see more data.
Is there anyone showing positive results ?

JM2C but if I had one of these tunes I'd be checking my a/f ratio based on what's been posted so far.

ajw45 sent me his DRF data. I am not sure what optimal AFRs are for the Z4M so I will reserve my comments until I learn more. For what it's worth above 5000RPM, he does gain between 10whp - 24whp depending on area of the power curve. What perplexes me the most was that both his stock runs and tuned runs have very different shapes in the power curve.

Is this shape normal at the top end? Looks very different from my countless dynos on my E46 M3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyfrc

EVERYONE who bought the Evolve tune should dyno test it.

The throttle mapping of the Evolve tune gives you the percepetion that it works. However, I find with most car forums people will give something postive reviews if it "Feels Good" or "Sounds Good" and never actually TEST IT.

We may never know.........

Proper dyno testing before and after the tune can definitely help sort out potential issues and concerns! I have endless amounts of dyno runs on my E46 M3, all on a DynoJet. Throughout the several years, I have realized that dynoing cars consistently and properly is much more difficult than just strapping it down and running it as many times as the operator allows.

Hopefully you get things situated with Evolve, regardless of the route you take. Goodluck!

10-30-2012, 12:45 AM	#332
tikamak Captain 58 Rep 913 Posts Drives: 2006 Z4M Roadster TiAG/black Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Beirut iTrader: (0)	Still thinking about it mate, there an extra cost involved here since I need to send them the ECU
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10-30-2012, 08:51 AM	#335
inTgr8r Lieutenant General 2452 Rep 11,667 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (10)	^words of wisdom. __________________ '21 M2C Hockenheim Silver '18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold) '13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold) '07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
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10-30-2012, 10:59 AM	#336
tikamak Captain 58 Rep 913 Posts Drives: 2006 Z4M Roadster TiAG/black Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Beirut iTrader: (0)	I am thinking about it. thanks byron.
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10-31-2012, 01:55 AM	#339
johanness Banned 56 Rep 1,739 Posts Drives: 2008 Z4MC Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Seattle, Vancouver iTrader: (3) Garage List 2008 BMW Z4M COUPE [7.00] 2012 BMW X1 xDrive 28i [9.00]	Yeah I thought they changed that when they went from the DirectFlash model to this one. Dunno
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11-03-2012, 11:23 PM	#340
kennyfrc First Lieutenant 18 Rep 376 Posts Drives: 2008 Z4MC Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: ATL GA iTrader: (1)	Dyno Results Not what I expected but at this point the tune is showing a loss and I have emailed evolve who requested info on the dyno correction factor. AFR seems rich to me and I lost power over the entire curve compare to them OEM tune. I am going back to the dyno next week to test the evolve and OEM tune back to back. Attached Images __________________ Toy: 2008 Silver Z4MC 300WHP/241TQ Mods: OEM Euro Headers, RPI Scoop Daily: 2010 Tacoma Double Cab
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11-05-2012, 10:21 PM	#342
ajw45 Private First Class 32 Rep 149 Posts Drives: Z4M Coupe Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Boston iTrader: (0)	Finally got the dyno done post tune: - Stock 07 z4m ~ 55k miles - Same dyno for both runs - Dyno conditions were hot and humid for the stock run, cool and damp for the post tune run - About 500 miles of adaptation time with no service, oil changes, etc. It's hard to make an apples to apples comparison since the stock tune seemed to be pulling timing/dumping fuel at high rpm but it looks like the tune gains a few rwhp and rwtq across the range. Attached Images
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11-06-2012, 05:43 PM	#345
flipm3 E46 + E90 + F80 193 Rep 2,895 Posts Drives: E46 + E90 + F80 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Illinois iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW M3 [0.00] 2002 BMW M3 [0.00]	Very interesting seeing these dynos. The shape of the curve of the Z4M is so different compared to the E46 M3, at least based off all your stock and tuned runs. Would any of you mind emailing me your DRF files for me to take a closer look before I make any conclusions? In regards to AFR targets. I have seen a wide variety, but if I recall, they try to target mid 12s to low 13s. __________________ F80 M3 DCT\|Alpine White . Black Leather \| My Build Thread E90 M3 DCT\|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth \| My Build Thread E46 M3 6MT\|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather \| My Build Thread
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11-06-2012, 07:06 PM	#347
kennyfrc First Lieutenant 18 Rep 376 Posts Drives: 2008 Z4MC Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: ATL GA iTrader: (1)	At this point my car is been programmed back to OEM! __________________ Toy: 2008 Silver Z4MC 300WHP/241TQ Mods: OEM Euro Headers, RPI Scoop Daily: 2010 Tacoma Double Cab
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11-07-2012, 06:07 AM	#350
inTgr8r Lieutenant General 2452 Rep 11,667 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto iTrader: (10)	It would be nice to see more data. Is there anyone showing positive results ? JM2C but if I had one of these tunes I'd be checking my a/f ratio based on what's been posted so far. __________________ '21 M2C Hockenheim Silver '18 718 Cayman S Lava Orange (sold) '13 E92 M3 Santorini Blue (sold) '07 Z4 M Coupe Alpine White (sold)
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