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      01-28-2007, 07:25 AM   #1
meruyailir
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Ground Clearance

How does the ground clearance of Z4 3.0 compared with E90? I can't find this information on the BMW spec pages.
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      02-11-2007, 03:50 AM   #2
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I don't know how it compares to the E90, but I can tell you that the Z4 3.0 has much better ground clearance than my E46 Coupe did.

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      02-17-2007, 08:44 AM   #3
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Hi, this is to answer your question and also to address someone who asked about winter driving with the Z4:

The regular Z4 3.0si has good ground clearance, especially if compared, for example, to the E46 M3 and it's very low front spoiler. The clearance in Z4 3.0si is about the same as the E87/1-series, in both you sit at about the same height and have practically the same ground clearance - clearly less than the normal E90 or E92 for example. This is with both having the optional sports suspension installed from the factory (15mm lowered suspension and much stiffer and harder, not to mention other major changes.) Without the sports suspension, your clearance is even better, but your handling will suffer quite a lot.

The Z4 M (Coupé or Roadster) has less clearance (due to having the much more lowered M Sports suspension by default), but still more than the old E46 M3 had, again mainly because of old M3's low front spoiler. You have to be careful in the wintertime not to scratch it on snow or ice. I've driven the Z4MC several times now during the winter and it's not a problem to drive as an everyday car (warm and comfy too, seat heaters warm up really fast) but you gotta be careful with icy and/or snowy parking lots and such, first to make sure that you don't hit hard ice with the bottom (luckily the Z4MC has excellent bottom insulation and protection), and second to make sure you don't scratch or ruin the front spoiler or the side panels by running into a spot with a high or thick pile of ice and/or snow on it. If you're careful, you don't have to worry about any more problems than you would with pretty much any other car - it's an M car and to protect it you should drive it accordingly, carefully, and with respect, and most people do - this avoids 99% of winter problems. During the summer, you shouldn't have to worry about the clearance on either, Z4 regular or M - only if you have some really nasty potholes on the roads, road constructions or annoying stop-and-go type road obstacles, you need to be careful especially with the Z4 M to take them real slow to avoid ground contact. If you need to, stop and get out of the car to check, if you're not sure that the front spoiler can make it without touching the ground. It's worth those few extra seconds vs. the repair bill.

For winter with the Z4 M, 18" winter wheels and tires are a must to keep the clearance height, smaller ones would bring it down more (and 17" probably wouldn't even fit because of the large brake calipers - a good combo for the Z4 M (Coupé or Roadster) is 18" for winter, 19" for the summer.) In cold, icy and snowy climates such as all of Scandinavia, northern Canada etc, 18" studded winter tires are the best choice. The best winter tire by far on the market right now seems to be the Continental WinterViking 2 with it's non-symmetrical oval-shaped "brilliant" stud-technology. (It has won practically every winter tire test that it has been on, and it's also my experience that it is the best, having used it myself on multiple vehicles (and my own), including sessions of very hard test driving involving the new E70 X5s.) Nokian's HKPL5 comes close, but just can't match it for quietness in all conditions and traction in normal fall or spring conditions when there suddenly is no snow, but you still have the winter tires on.

(Unfortunately this is in Finnish language - but the pictures give you a slight idea of how the studs differ from traditional studs: http://www.conti-online.com/coremedi...main01_fi.html)

Conventional winter tire stud vs. the WV2 brilliant stud technology demo:
http://www.conti-online.com/coremedi...main01_fi.html

The WinterViking2 is well available in large sizes such as 17" and 18". Some sizes are even available as SSR (Run-flat) models, even though I don't recommend Run-flat technology on any BMW for any tire, in any situation - when you buy new tires for a new BMW, summer or winter, get the BMW M tire puncture fix kit and get regular non-runflats (As far as summer tires, Pirelli P Zero Nero and ContiSport 2 (haven't tried CS3 enough to judge yet) are some of my favorites, depending on the purpose, with the Pirelli being the best general purpose every-day driver that still has enough grip on it to haul ass hard even under M BMW's and pull off 4.x 0-100km/h times.

The WinterViking2 is also the first winter tire along with the model year 2006 Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5 to have a speed rating of T (Which means sustainable top speed of 190km/h). Most studded winter tires used to have a top speed rating of Q previously, which meant only 160km/h of sustained speed, which was one of the reasons lot of people who really would have benefited from studded winter tires, went with stud-less high-traction winter tires instead, as they have always had higher speed ratings. But as far as winter tire features go, they are practically useless (and deadly dangerous) in a cold enough climate, as winter tires, non-studded tires just don't stop your car on pure ice - at all, and are downright dangerous especially with RWD, and if you like to drive with the DTC turned off in the winter like I do (I like to turn just by hitting the gas, for one.)

Hopefully this has been somewhat helpful in the quest for Z4 ground clearance issues and on the other hand, Z4's winter-worthiness.

:rocks: (Jamming with my new SACD player playing true 1-bit, 2.8MHz+ sample rate SACD's and 24-bit 192kHz sample rate DVD-Audio discs in 5.1 surround mode... Jeez what a difference compared to shitty old regular CDs! - and not just the 5.1 surround, but the pure sound quality itself - hope they get a player in BMWs one of these years. I hate having to play just 44.1kHz .wav files from my iPOD right now.)

Best regards,

Jussi

Last edited by JK42; 02-17-2007 at 03:38 PM..
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      02-17-2007, 02:56 PM   #4
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Great post JK! I do believe any BMW can be safely driven in the snow given the correct setup of the car ahead of time (which isnt too difficult!)
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      02-17-2007, 03:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkE90M3 View Post
Great post JK! I do believe any BMW can be safely driven in the snow given the correct setup of the car ahead of time (which isnt too difficult!)
Thanks,

Yes they can, and are being driven over here in Scandinavia (and I'm sure at least in Canada) every winter - all models. M3s, M5s, M6s, Z4 M Roadsters with a removable hardtop on usually, 3-series Cabriolets with the same - sometimes with just the ragtop up (just saw a 645i Cabrio with just the ragtop up cruising around in -15C weather one day about 2 weeks ago.) , etc, etc.

There's a whole wide world and art to BMW winter driving. And it can be lot of fun, like I mentioned earlier, with the DTC turned off and the right tires under you, you can do things that FWD and 4WD drivers can only enviously look at.

Best regards,

Jussi
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      02-17-2007, 03:48 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by JK42 View Post
Thanks,

Yes they can, and are being driven over here in Scandinavia (and I'm sure at least in Canada) every winter - all models. M3s, M5s, M6s, Z4 M Roadsters with a removable hardtop on usually, 3-series Cabriolets with the same - sometimes with just the ragtop up (just saw a 645i Cabrio with just the ragtop up cruising around in -15C weather one day about 2 weeks ago.) , etc, etc.

There's a whole wide world and art to BMW winter driving. And it can be lot of fun, like I mentioned earlier, with the DTC turned off and the right tires under you, you can do things that FWD and 4WD drivers can only enviously look at.

Best regards,

Jussi

Jussi,

You know, I have an E46 which is on very low coilovers and has very little ground clearance, but with the proper snow tires, I still never have a problem and I just love being able to dance around all the big SUVs on the streets because my little bmw with proper tires is much more surefooted then those SUVs with all season tires.
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      02-17-2007, 04:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkE90M3 View Post
Jussi,

You know, I have an E46 which is on very low coilovers and has very little ground clearance, but with the proper snow tires, I still never have a problem and I just love being able to dance around all the big SUVs on the streets because my little bmw with proper tires is much more surefooted then those SUVs with all season tires.
(Whew, this turned out much longer story than I intended.. I guess I'm bored.)

When I was in the US, I lived close to Washington DC in Northern Virginia, and visited NYC very often (many times by car through Baltimore, Philly, New Jersey etc, that long stretch of highway with insane amount of toll booths during the trip), so I know how the winter is over there - very short and not much snow. Out of 4 winters, only during 1 the DC metro area had enough snow to really call it a winter with snow, and it lasted only about 2 weeks. As a matter of fact so much snow came down, (I think this was in 2001 or 2002) that panic (of course) ensued with schools closing down and people staying home from work for the first days. It snowed about 10 inches during 24 hours or so, and I believe it was between the Sunday-Monday night, worst time for work I had to use a shovel to dig up my car from under the snow, which is rare even here where the winters last a good 3-4 months with usually snow all of that time (not snowing all the time of course, but with snow remaining on the ground and snowy/icy crap on the roads.)

Anyway, the point of the story was. At that point I happened to have a shitty loaner car, a small FWD Dodge Neon, as my Cadillac Escalade (another shitty car, but I was stuck with it - a very long story - suffice to say, not my choice of a car.) was in the service. The Neon had a 2.0L inline 4 and automatic tranny. Now, as I'm sure most of the US readers of this forum know, around that area (Northeast US, DC-NYC-Boston corridor) people don't use winter tires on their cars because the winter is usually so short and there is usually not much snow if any at all - especially on the roads. Now there was snow. Lots of it. After spending one of the longest times I have ever spent shoveling my car from under the snow, and I have seen long winters with A LOT of snow, but this was ridiculous, I finally got on to the road. Thanks to the neighbor who loaned me the shovel. I truly hadn't prepared for this kind of snow in that area at all.

Now, on the roads, people were driving like... it was amazing... complete morons. Ladies with 4x4 SUVs were driving all over the place in the _center_ of 2 lanes doing about 15-20 mph average. Now, nothing wrong with being cautious, but this was just ridiculous - as there was no ice - only snow, no ice had had the chance to form on the roads. And everywhere I had to drive to get to the office, it was the same. 4 by 4 SUV's in the middle of 2 lanes. On small roads, not even on the highway. I was lucky not to have to take the highway that day. When I had a chance to pass, I kickdowned the motherf* Neon and let it gather enough momentum to whizz past at around 40-50mph. And for turns and intersections, I would, knowing the route well, predict them coming and starting to brake enough in advance. So there I was dodging these soccer moms in their 4x4s who could have driven well like I was doing with no problems since they had the traction. My FWD traction mostly just spinning the wheels most of the time, and ABS scratching all the way when braking - I finally get to the office parking lot which is visible from several office windows. Snow has been plowed from the lot, but there's still a snow base on the ground so it's slippery. I see a perfect free parking spot to do a "Blues Brothers"-style slide parking into. I give it the needed gas and then brake, and finally pull the handbrake to slide into the slot 100% perfectly. Smiling to myself I was happy inside and thought it had been pretty funny all the way. I kinda regretted that nobody had been there with me to see my perfect parking - well, turns out one of my bosses (our CFO) had been looking out of his office window and told me he had seen me manically smile as I had done that handbrake turn into the parking spot and we had a pretty good laugh about it.

Going back home that evening traffic was the same. And in the morning, about 70% of people called in that they would "have to" stay home due to the weather. *sigh*. I guess that this story is one of one specific winter driving culture, and to point out that there are others. Northern climates where you have drive in the snow, can't avoid it, and you just get your best possible snow tires and get used to it. And if you've done it all your driving life, it's nothing unusual.

Not that I don't miss the DC area weather, or the weather in Tuscany, Italy for that matter, and like it better than these shitty winters up north here. A BMW Cabriolet or Roadster would have been perfect in both places with at least 6 months of good summer, all the time to play golf in the world, with great courses for just a green-fee... In Tuscany, I spotted one Ferrari F430 and several M3 Cabrios. The local police doesn't much observe speed limits, so pretty much everyone speeds. Just the highways/motorways feel dangerously claustrophobic, as there's nearly always only 2 lanes with no room for a car (barely even for a motorcycle) between the lane and the usually concrete or metal railing that is there all the time on both sides of the road. There are stop-spots about 500 meters apart if you have to have an emergency stop - I can see why one would want run-flat tires in that environment.

The German Autobahns, now those are the place to drive in. Although in several places they can be a little tricky (too curved and if you don't know it and come in too fast, you may be searching for the brake much faster than you usually want to), but they're not wrapped in with metal fences, and usually have enough lanes. The ones around Frankfurt are quite nice. One of my favorite places to take a BMW to and let it rip.

Best regards,

Jussi
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      02-17-2007, 05:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkE90M3 View Post
Jussi,

You know, I have an E46 which is on very low coilovers and has very little ground clearance, but with the proper snow tires, I still never have a problem and I just love being able to dance around all the big SUVs on the streets because my little bmw with proper tires is much more surefooted then those SUVs with all season tires.
It's rare to see someone from your area (NYC) use snow tires. Do you live in the city itself? (I guess not since you mention Long Island...) - I guess only people who are into cars and care about them and know about them would be the group that would use snow tires over there. The snow tires available there are probably something like M+S-marked high-traction studless winter tires (with studded tires being illegal)? Those are about the same as are used in central Europe and Italy for the little snow that they get. They're nothing like the snow tires for northern conditions, and one couldn't really use them in northern conditions safely, but definitely much, much better than using all season tires when it's snowy. Perfect choice for the area that you live in. They probably also let you steer with the back by gas pedal when you disable the ASC (and then correct with the steering wheel if you need to..)? I found that the new DTC/ASC/DSC on the E87 lets you do much bolder stuff with the first level DTC turned off than my old 330Ci E46 used to let me do with the first level ASC turned off. The E46 would often times intervene with DSC when I was on a nice side slide that was perfectly under control and part of my steering, by cutting power to the rear wheels and braking automatically, but with the E87, I have to almost be doing 360 spins before the DSC kicks in to cut off the fun, it let's you stretch the envelope much further. I believe I read somewhere in some BMW marketing material that the latest DSC had been enhanced at some point to let you drive sportier in winter conditions (I believe this was around the same time that xDrive was introduced for the 3er.) - so DSC is now tamer and doesn't spoil the fun as often as it used to, which is a good thing in the Winter with my driving style. Still it's better to have the DSC on in the back rather than disable everything, because it might just stop you from sliding too much sideways or whatever.

Best regards,

Jussi
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      02-17-2007, 05:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK42 View Post
It's rare to see someone from your area (NYC) use snow tires. Do you live in the city itself? (I guess not since you mention Long Island...) - I guess only people who are into cars and care about them and know about them would be the group that would use snow tires over there. The snow tires available there are probably something like M+S-marked high-traction studless winter tires (with studded tires being illegal)? Those are about the same as are used in central Europe and Italy for the little snow that they get. They're nothing like the snow tires for northern conditions, and one couldn't really use them in northern conditions safely, but definitely much, much better than using all season tires when it's snowy. Perfect choice for the area that you live in. They probably also let you steer with the back by gas pedal when you disable the ASC (and then correct with the steering wheel if you need to..)? I found that the new DTC/ASC/DSC on the E87 lets you do much bolder stuff with the first level DTC turned off than my old 330Ci E46 used to let me do with the first level ASC turned off. The E46 would often times intervene with DSC when I was on a nice side slide that was perfectly under control and part of my steering, by cutting power to the rear wheels and braking automatically, but with the E87, I have to almost be doing 360 spins before the DSC kicks in to cut off the fun, it let's you stretch the envelope much further. I believe I read somewhere in some BMW marketing material that the latest DSC had been enhanced at some point to let you drive sportier in winter conditions (I believe this was around the same time that xDrive was introduced for the 3er.) - so DSC is now tamer and doesn't spoil the fun as often as it used to, which is a good thing in the Winter with my driving style. Still it's better to have the DSC on in the back rather than disable everything, because it might just stop you from sliding too much sideways or whatever.

Best regards,

Jussi
Jussi, I live on Long Island but commute all over the east coast to be honest, and your right it is rare to have pure snow tires out here, especially over the last few years which as you mentioned have been totally mild in terms of snow. But that very same year with the heavy snow (the year you mentioned in your story) my snow tires came in handy, I was actualy driving from Philadelphia to New York that night, with 0 visibility, there was only myself, a police car and one other SUV on the NJ-Turnpike, I've never seen anything like that before.. quite a few times I ran into blocks of snow that went up about 3/4 the height of my door!! (piled that way from snow plows I'm guessing), but I would simply back out and keep going on my way.. Thank god for the snow tires.

They aren't M+S all-season tires, but actually Blizzacks, and just deal with the performance loss on the non-snowy days. I did run some Michelin Pilot Sport A/s which are M+S rated, which were also ok in the snow, but I wasnt compeltly happy with their snow performance so I went to the blizzack LMs which were a huge improvement. Id rather be safe and have my car serve as a truly all purpose all condidition car during the winter months so I will be guaranteed to make it to work/etc everyday. Then the moment the air of spring comes out I quickly switch back to my summer tires and have fun again !

I do find when i'm driving around in light snow, then DSC works just fine (in my e46, which is probably an older softer then the new DTC), but in really heavy snow the DSC is more problematic and I drive with it compeltly off. When the tail end gives out I give a quick correction and continue on my way with no fuss, whereas the DSC would bog me down and make a worse situation at times because I would have to downshift and/or do more sterring corrections
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      02-20-2007, 09:36 AM   #10
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Thanks for the excellent explanation, Jussi. I'm still hesitating on Z4. I'm afraid when the M3 comes, I'll be back to ground zero. But M3 is still a year away, at least for Indonesia. In the meantime I'm kinda bored with my 325. Tough...
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      03-07-2008, 12:48 PM   #11
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I don't want to revive an old thread, but this seems like the logical place to ask the question.

Can anyone provide the actual, measured ground clearance (inches or mm), front and rear of...
  • Z4 3.0si Coupe (Sport Package)
  • Z4 M Coupe
I know the Z4 3.0i roadster is ~120mm (not sure if that's with or without the sport package -- I'd assume with -- or if that's a front or rear measurement). I won't be ordering the car until the tail end of this year (been car shopping the past month, plan to take delivery 3rd week of March 2009) so I don't have one to measure, nor do I want to pester the dealership.

Just planning for winter of 09. Already.
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      03-08-2008, 12:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkE90M3 View Post
Great post JK! I do believe any BMW can be safely driven in the snow given the correct setup of the car ahead of time (which isnt too difficult!)
Very true! People always thought I was "screwed" everytime it snowed because they knew I drove RWD. I always laughed at them. Snow tires are a beautiful thing. I actually prefer RWD in the snow than the 4x4 of the winter beater ('93 Jeep Grand Cherokee) I picked up last December....more predictable handling, I think. A friend of mine had a E39 M5 as his winter mule and never had issue with it in the snow either.

I think one area people get in trouble with RWD cars is that they are ignorant of their tires. They either don't pay attention to tread depth or the fact that their car may have come with summer tires.
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