All 2006 Non M Z4 Drivers Read! Important Information About Our Engines

[thelinux]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The tapping issue is caused by the hydraulic valve adjusters (tappets) not being as full of oil as they need to be to maintain the correct valve clearance, not a lubrication issue AFAIK. That is why revving the engine should cause the tapping to go away, as the increased oil pressure expands the adjusters to the correct lash point.

Sorry for being ignorant. so does it mean that this does not damage the engine?

[v3.2mc]

Originally Posted by thelinux

So does it mean that this does not damage the engine?

after all the research you've done, has there been even one confirmed failure found? i've seen lots of speculation, but no actual issues proven caused by this phenomenon. many of the n51, n52, and n52k engined cars i've had have been stricken with this tapping, and none of them have had issues. my wife's current 3'er has over 86k mi on it and is still going strong with the 0w-40. the 530 touring i have has 136k mi on it, and no ticking at all with the 0w-40. the two previous z4 3.0si coupes i've owned both had ticking - the first was so bad that the head was replaced under warranty at 5k mi; the new head started ticking less than 3k mi after that. none of these cars have suffered any performance issues.

the point: people have been freaking out over this tapping issue since these engines came out in 2006. i still haven't found one confirmed failure as a result... some talk, but no proof. this tapping thing is simply annoying and it is certainly nothing to worry about.

[baege]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

after all the research you've done, has there been even one confirmed failure found? i've seen lots of speculation, but no actual issues proven caused by this phenomenon. many of the n51, n52, and n52k engined cars i've had have been stricken with this tapping, and none of them have had issues. my wife's current 3'er has over 86k mi on it and is still going strong with the 0w-40. the 530 touring i have has 136k mi on it, and no ticking at all with the 0w-40. the two previous z4 3.0si coupes i've owned both had ticking - the first was so bad that the head was replaced under warranty at 5k mi; the new head started ticking less than 3k mi after that. none of these cars have suffered any performance issues.

the point: people have been freaking out over this tapping issue since these engines came out in 2006. i still haven't found one confirmed failure as a result... some talk, but no proof. this tapping thing is simply annoying and it is certainly nothing to worry about.

On the 3.0SI with the replaced head, was the new head an updated head that some state was redesigned to deal with the ticking issue?

[v3.2mc]

Originally Posted by baege

On the 3.0SI with the replaced head, was the new head an updated head that some state was redesigned to deal with the ticking issue?

updated head... thoroughly disappointing.

i was told by a BMW rep that the only difference between the old and new heads is an anti-flowback valve, preventing oil drainage after the engine is turned off. it makes sense that that change alone would not solve the issue, because the engine doesn't tick when it's not running... granted, the new head, even though it ticked, was SUBSTANTIALLY quieter than the old one. i ended up trading the car in on a 128i that started ticking 8 months after i got it.

if it's got an n51, n52, or n52k... it's highly likely it will tick. (in my case, 100%)

[baege]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

updated head... thoroughly disappointing.

i was told by a BMW rep that the only difference between the old and new heads is an anti-flowback valve, preventing oil drainage after the engine is turned off. it makes sense that that change alone would not solve the issue, because the engine doesn't tick when it's not running... granted, the new head, even though it ticked, was SUBSTANTIALLY quieter than the old one. i ended up trading the car in on a 128i that started ticking 8 months after i got it.

if it's got an n51, n52, or n52k... it's highly likely it will tick. (in my case, 100%)

Cheers. I think you've pretty much nailed the issue and provided a lot more clarity than can be found in the whole ticking thread at e90 post.

[ludoZ4]

thanks a lot, really good to know

[thelinux]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

after all the research you've done, has there been even one confirmed failure found? i've seen lots of speculation, but no actual issues proven caused by this phenomenon. many of the n51, n52, and n52k engined cars i've had have been stricken with this tapping, and none of them have had issues. my wife's current 3'er has over 86k mi on it and is still going strong with the 0w-40. the 530 touring i have has 136k mi on it, and no ticking at all with the 0w-40. the two previous z4 3.0si coupes i've owned both had ticking - the first was so bad that the head was replaced under warranty at 5k mi; the new head started ticking less than 3k mi after that. none of these cars have suffered any performance issues.

the point: people have been freaking out over this tapping issue since these engines came out in 2006. i still haven't found one confirmed failure as a result... some talk, but no proof. this tapping thing is simply annoying and it is certainly nothing to worry about.

Indeed, I've never seen anyone claiming engine fail or any kind of damage (other than to their ears) to the engine.
So I am just going to leave it like this. Thanks!

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by thelinux

Sorry for being ignorant. so does it mean that this does not damage the engine?

Shouldn't be any damage, just annoying at idle. We had an E90 325i that did this off and on for 40,000km, never affected performance, oil consumption or anything else on the engine.

[papitosabe]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Shouldn't be any damage, just annoying at idle. We had an E90 325i that did this off and on for 40,000km, never affected performance, oil consumption or anything else on the engine.

very annoying... sounds like I have a clunker engine in a gorgeous BMW... we should all film our ticking BMWs and then one of us could do a video collage of all the ticking noise issues and make the damn video go viral... we just need a good title... and then maybe BMW will ensure their customers are taken care of... really worked well when people got the Red Ring of Death on their Xboxs... I'm not well off like most BMW folks...I worked my ass off and saved up for a long time to get my Z4 years ago... it just upsets me that its a known issue and BMW doesn't take care of it like they should.

edit***sorry for the rant, I guess I just don't think I should have to rev my engine a certain way or do something out of the ordinary daily in order to bypass a known BMW issue... its like when I was a little kid, me and my sister had to push start my dad's pinto once or twice a week... not as extreme obviously, but just saying.. When I stop at a redbox, or leave my car running with someone in the car the 1st 30 mins, I've been asked , whats that noise? aggravating, ok, I'll shut up now..

[v3.2mc]

^ i understand, but...

... i thought the same thing and decided to trade in two bimmers for two subarus. the '11 forester after one year had the driver's seat bottom pad collapse, and Subaru essentially said it was my fat, bulbous 159 lb butt that caused it. the '12 imprezza with "symmetrical all-wheel drive" got stuck on a section of packed snow because only the left side wheels would spin; the right side just sitting there all limp and stupid. older than that was an '08 Colorado that had such thin sheet metal all over the body that leaning against it would dent it. there was also the '95 talon tsi-awd that leaked so much my apartment complex manager told me i had to park in the street, and when i started it up it smelled like burnt wet grass until i turned left.

list of BMW's i've owned and the problems associated with them...

* '98 328i (second owner, 83k mi):
climate head, P/S lines, A/C comp, LOTS of rust
, 5 seized calipers

* '95 ///m3 (second owner, 55k mi):
climate head, P/S lines, driveshaft, devoured a spark plug, busted trailing arms, LOTS of rust

* '03 330xi (second owner, 25k mi):
climate head, radio, instrument cluster, LF axle, 1 seized caliper, seemingly countless issues with bulbs and sockets corroding, muthaf^&#*ng m54 cold weather vent valve kit after kit after kit after kit...

* '07 z4 3.0si (first owner):
cylinder head @ 5k mi

* '09 128i (first owner):
only had 8 months and it started ticking

* '06 540xit (second owner, 54k mi):
susp pump, sunroof cassette, every module in the spare tire well, mech sleeve, rear main seal

* '84 320i (n^th owner, 85k mi):
giant pile... way too many parts and problems to list. bought it for $2500 (not including the $$$ spent on repairs after purchase) and sold it for $500 just ten months later.

* '03 540i (second owner, 145k mi):
cluster, trailing arms, DSP amp

* '07 ///m coupe (third owner, 61k mi):
not one problem yet, but i'm not holding my breath.

* '06 330xi (second owner, 78k mi):
xenon igniter, mech sleeve

all cars have issues. some cute, some quirky, some annoying, and some dangerous (the old mitsu Montero sport failed slalom comes to mind). BMW has always had issues, in every single chassis they've ever made. while i don't condone the acceptance of issues, i'm certainly not surprised by them. we drive and love BMW's for the emotions they create, not for the reliability of a spoon with no moving parts.

[Huz-Z]

Notwithstanding the fact that all cars have issues and its impossible to avoid them in the design and manufacturing process, its BMW's response to them when they become apparent that is, well, unacceptable.

Consider.

I've owned several Honda Accords since 1997. I leased the first, a 1997 EXL and during the 4 year lease period, I had NOT ONE single complaint. No rattles, no squeaks, nothing broke. Not even a bulb burned out. It just worked - perfectly.

My next Accord was a 2001 which we bought new and still own. During the first year, the transmission started shifting with a clunk every now and then; Honda replaced the entire gearbox without argument. Following that, they issued a general recall on those automatic transmissions and extended the warranty to seven years. We also have a 2009 which we bought new and I think we have had a few recall notices for issues that I have never even noticed to be a problem.

BMW however is a PREMIUM brand. As such, there is a very reasonable expecation on the part of BMW owners that they will be treated at least as well as customers of "economy" brands like Honda. Sadly, based on this N52 ticking issue and the sticky steering problem on some cars, that does not appear to be the case.

[stasha]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

Notwithstanding the fact that all cars have issues and its impossible to avoid them in the design and manufacturing process, its BMW's response to them when they become apparent that is, well, unacceptable.

...I've owned several Honda Accords since 1997. ... I had NOT ONE single complaint. No rattles, no squeaks, nothing broke. Not even a bulb burned out. It just worked - perfectly.

... During the first year, the transmission started shifting with a clunk every now and then; Honda replaced the entire gearbox without argument. ...

BMW however is a PREMIUM brand. As such, there is a very reasonable expecation on the part of BMW owners that they will be treated at least as well as customers of "economy" brands like Honda. ....

HUZ,
You are correct, and I think our only recourse is either a class action suit, or even a tactic like "Pap" proposes where we get a video collage of clicking BMWs that goes viral, and we shame them into making a correction. Even get it visibility on CNN or FOX.

When a brand advertizes and prices its products as superior, then we should expect unquestioned customer service, a la "the customer is always right", like with Honda, Hyundai, and hey, even Walmart! It is the impudence, arrogance and unwarranted elitism of BMW that is bothersome. They ignore or loftily blow off this major complaint, and they are saying, in effect, "shut up and buy another car."

It is also a sign that their leadership is failing and that they are having financial difficulties. It's only a matter of time before they will plummet -- and it will be attributed to the stereotype of "German arrogance."

We saw it with the Brits!! If you were car-aware back in the late 50s/60s, can you imagine EVER thinking that the elite British car brands would TOTALLY disappear as products made in the UK? No more Jag (Tata, Indian company -- one of the "colonies"!); Rolls, Aston Martin, Land Rover, Minis (all GERMAN!! -- The country that bombed Britain and lost WWII!) -- and REMEMBER THE NOW DEAD Healeys, MGs, Triumphs, Jensens. None of these trend setting, state of the art, icons of sports cars still survives as cars made in Britain.

It's history, and it does repeat itself.

Now, who on this forum has the skills to put together a video? In this day and age, this strategy will work much faster than legal action.

Any suggestions???

[v3.2mc]

i was leaving service out of the argument due to local cultures having a substantial influence on the quality of customer satisfaction. a person's experience with Honda where Harrold lives may be quite different than where Helga lives. the product is what is constant, and therefore much easier to compare.

[v3.2mc]

Originally Posted by stasha

HUZ,
You are correct, and I think our only recourse is either a class action suit, or even a tactic like "Pap" proposes where we get a video collage of clicking BMWs that goes viral, and we shame them into making a correction. Even get it visibility on CNN or FOX.

When a brand advertizes and prices its products as superior, then we should expect unquestioned customer service, a la "the customer is always right", like with Honda, Hyundai, and hey, even Walmart! It is the impudence, arrogance and unwarranted elitism of BMW that is bothersome. They ignore or loftily blow off this major complaint, and they are saying, in effect, "shut up and buy another car."

It is also a sign that their leadership is failing and that they are having financial difficulties. It's only a matter of time before they will plummet -- and it will be attributed to the stereotype of "German arrogance."

We saw it with the Brits!! If you were car-aware back in the late 50s/60s, can you imagine EVER thinking that the elite British car brands would TOTALLY disappear as products made in the UK? No more Jag (Tata, Indian company -- one of the "colonies"!); Rolls, Aston Martin, Land Rover, Minis (all GERMAN!! -- The country that bombed Britain and lost WWII!) -- and REMEMBER THE NOW DEAD Healeys, MGs, Triumphs, Jensens. None of these trend setting, state of the art, icons of sports cars still survives as cars made in Britain.

It's history, and it does repeat itself.

Now, who on this forum has the skills to put together a video? In this day and age, this strategy will work much faster than legal action.

Any suggestions???

easy there, killer...

i agree that culture has a lot to do with the quality of product and service, but labeling all germans as arrogant... is arrogant.

if you don't like the service you're getting, don't buy the product. simple as that.

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

easy there, killer...

i agree that culture has a lot to do with the quality of product and service, but labeling all germans as arrogant... is arrogant.

if you don't like the service you're getting, don't buy the product. simple as that.

For me personally, my car does not have the ticking problem; it was apparently fixed before I got the car and my steering is fine. My local dealership has also been very decent to me with respect to my Z4.

But I do find the larger BMW coroporation's views on these issues to be troubling and my comments above are made in that light. In fact, just last week we had a 3 Series XDrive out for a test drive to replace our aging Accord and my wife wants to check out an X3. So based on these other issues, there's no guarantee that we'll ultimately buy a BMW.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

i was leaving service out of the argument due to local cultures having a substantial influence on the quality of customer satisfaction. a person's experience with Honda where Harrold lives may be quite different than where Helga lives. the product is what is constant, and therefore much easier to compare.

Helga sounds hot

[stasha]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

i was leaving service out of the argument due to local cultures having a substantial influence on the quality of customer satisfaction. a person's experience with Honda where Harrold lives may be quite different than where Helga lives. the product is what is constant, and therefore much easier to compare.

Based on the numerous complaints about the ticking, and the universal response that the ticking does not get fixed, this is actually a BMW corporate problem, not a local service problem.

[stasha]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

easy there, killer...

i agree that culture has a lot to do with the quality of product and service, but labeling all germans as arrogant... is arrogant.

if you don't like the service you're getting, don't buy the product. simple as that.

Read my comment closer -- and you will see the carefully worded statement "...will be attributed to the stereotype of "German arrogance." " -- You did not see the words "is DUE TO..."

After all, my mother and all her relatives are German, and proud of that heritage and the stereotype of being precise and technically inclined.

[stasha]

There is a very similar and extensive thread complaining of this ticking, on another BMW forum (see http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...13504&page=106).

This problem is much much bigger than just Z4s. The fact that the company does nothing, and that the BMW service centers continue to come up with bogus solutions (check out some of the dealer suggestions for E90s that prove worthless), means there is a cancer in the corporation.

Hey, we need a community activist -- wasn't that Pres Obama's claim to fame?

[v3.2mc]

Originally Posted by DSC_OFF

Helga sounds hot

i know you like blondes, but she's more of a hotdog and waffles kind of girl...

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by v3.2mc

i know you like blondes, but she's more of a hotdog and waffles kind of girl...

Attachment 833729

Your brake duct drawing was sexier. I'm very disappointed.

[v3.2mc]