Track day woes - engine failure

[kennyfrc]

Originally Posted by knsaber

I'm in a huge mess right now. Bimmer Clinic replaced the rod bearings but it didn't solve the issue, so I'm down $2k. I screwed myself by not checking CPO warranty first because I thought it was expired but it turned out I am still covered, however I called North America and because I had the engine worked on by a third party the warranty is void.

The dealer only checked the oil and mentioned there were a lot of metal filings and its better to replace the engine. I'm basically back at square one, wasted money already and definitely out of warranty.

New engine will be $16-18k which is highly not going to happen with me.

I do not want a junked engine.

I might just have to rebuild?

TRADE THE CAR!

[knsaber]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

From the FTC:

Auto Warranties, Routine Maintenance, and Repairs:
Is Using the Dealer a Must?
If you own a car, you know how important it is to keep up with routine maintenance and repairs. But can a dealer refuse to honor the warranty that came with your new car if someone else does the routine maintenance or repairs?

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the nation's consumer protection agency, says no. In fact, it's illegal for a dealer to deny your warranty coverage simply because you had routine maintenance or repairs performed by someone else. Routine maintenance often includes oil changes, tire rotations, belt replacement, fluid checks and flushes, new brake pads, and inspections. Maintenance schedules vary by vehicle make, model and year; the best source of information about routine scheduled maintenance is your owner's manual.

What is a warranty?

A warranty is a promise, often made by a manufacturer, to stand behind its product or to fix certain defects or malfunctions over a period of time. The warranty pays for any covered repairs or part replacements during the warranty period.

Do I have to use the dealer for repairs and maintenance to keep my warranty in effect?

No. An independent mechanic, a retail chain shop, or even you yourself can do routine maintenance and repairs on your vehicle. In fact, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which is enforced by the FTC, makes it illegal for manufacturers or dealers to claim that your warranty is void or to deny coverage under your warranty simply because someone other than the dealer did the work. That said, there may be certain situations where a repair may not be covered. For example, if you or your mechanic replaced a belt improperly and your engine is damaged as a result, your manufacturer or dealer may deny responsibility for fixing the engine under the warranty. However, according to the FTC, the manufacturer or dealer must be able to demonstrate that it was the improper belt replacement — rather than some other defect — that caused the damage to your engine. The warranty would still be in effect for other parts of your car.

I really appreciate the info, I will see if I can fight it!

So far the service manager has been very helpful except they require NA's permission, and it's NA that's being difficult.

[GammaZeta]

I would get the contact information of the person at NA and give them a call with that information.

Since the dealership is really just a go between, you can't really threaten legal action to the service manager when NA is on the hook.

Heck, BMW NA is just 25 minutes from Fort Lee, I'd take a trip down there to meet with them personally.

[knsaber]

Would CPO warranty have the same legal requirements as any new car warranty even thought it's a limited warranty?

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by knsaber

Would CPO warranty have the same legal requirements as any new car warranty even thought it's a limited warranty?

A warranty is a warranty.

Yes, the CPO covers only limited, non-wear items, such as engine, transmission, etc. It wouldn't cover wear items like brakes, springs, etc.

Obviously, your problem with the engine isn't a "wear and tear" item. Also, it's not something that happens to a lot of Z4M's.

It doesn't matter if it is a factory warranty on a new car or a CPO warranty. Remember, that a warranty is something that is agreed upon by the buyer and seller. The problem here is getting the manufacturer/seller to abide by their warranty.

There's other legal scenarios at play here, such as warranty of mechantability, implied warranties, etc., but those are really, really long shots and probably wouldn't apply. I don't know much about New Jersey consumer laws.

Basically, you drove the car. The engine broke. You have a CPO warranty that covers the engine/engine problems. You tried to have it fixed at your own expense at another shop. They did not fix OR CAUSE the problem. You now want BMW to fix the problem, which you can prove occurred while under the CPO warranty and was not a result of having a 3rd party work on it.

I'm very curious how this turns out. You MAY want to even consult an attorney at this point. However, if it turns out in your favor, you'll also be getting a bill from me!!!

[knsaber]

I opted to write a more formal email this time to NA and it got forwarded to the same woman I talked to on the phone, Kara in Customer Relations Department.

In summary it was about the engine started knocking, I brought it to outside shop to replace bearings but did not cause nor fix the problem, then contacted BMW dealer. I also mentioned the FTC laws and Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

She called back and left a voicemail and said she still can't provide warranty.

[DSC_OFF]

Originally Posted by knsaber

I opted to write a more formal email this time to NA and it got forwarded to the same woman I talked to on the phone, Kara in Customer Relations Department.

In summary it was about the engine started knocking, I brought it to outside shop to replace bearings but did not cause nor fix the problem, then contacted BMW dealer. I also mentioned the FTC laws and Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

She called back and left a voicemail and said she still can't provide warranty.

Is it time to lawyer up?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by knsaber

I opted to write a more formal email this time to NA and it got forwarded to the same woman I talked to on the phone, Kara in Customer Relations Department.

In summary it was about the engine started knocking, I brought it to outside shop to replace bearings but did not cause nor fix the problem, then contacted BMW dealer. I also mentioned the FTC laws and Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

She called back and left a voicemail and said she still can't provide warranty.

Originally Posted by DSC_OFF

Is it time to lawyer up?

Probably. And having a demand on legal letterhead signed by an attorney is going to carry a lot more weight than a personal letter or email.

I'll bet that BMW figures that, across a large number of cases, a good percentage will give up and not pursue. So they figure it's cost effective to take the "denied" approach, and will put as many burning hoops in the way as possible. Up to now, they've incurred no legal costs; it's pretty cheap to just have the representative say "no" as many times as she (or he) needs to, and hope the customer will just go away.

In this case, they've got this little "you used an indie shop" angle to try to try and run the customer off. (Not that it matters from a legal perspective, as GammaZeta noted, but it's a card they've been dealt, so they're playing it.) I am willing to lay odds that this will be a bit of a fight and require persistence. It's like this with most mfgrs--it's all about bean counting. You have to be a bigger PITA and liability to them than the potential costs they'd incur. Then they'll honor what's on the paper they gave you.

Since the out-of-pocket expenses on this could be high, it's probably worth some money to get legal help to pursue. But knsaber will need to do his own math to make that determination.

[SCHMOUPE]

in case you start looking for alternatives

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M3-3-2L-...a7ecc2&vxp=mtr

or this (local)

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...9&postcount=10

[gtMc]

Tony, are you a cca member? If so, perrhaps reaching out to the dealer ombudsmen wouldn't hurt from the Nj chapter? This sounds like its gotten way beyond where it should have. Agree with everything folks have said here, they should be honoring the warranty without question. Accepting anything less is not right, especially because your actions haven't voided the warranty.

Disgusting that bmw is making this so difficult. There is another dealership in the area that you might try going thru as well... and I know the Nj cca member who handles relations with them there. Happy to send an Email if you'd like?

[gtMc]

any update?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by gtMc

any update?

+1. Anything?