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      10-23-2012, 11:44 AM   #1
3002 tii
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Anyone here compete in Time Trial?

The Plan
I have fun doing DE's but part of me wants to push myself a bit more. I guess I'm at the equivalent of group 3 by CCA/PCA/NASA standards, although I am by no means the fastest in 3. I know I still have a ways to go but my plan was to make my way up to NASA HPDE 4, get used to open passing, the faster pace, etc. and eventually apply for a TT license...

The Car
A bone stock 3.0si is TT-D but already starts with +7 pts; 20-39points bumps me to TT-C. Add the rest of my mods, ie weight savings, tires, suspension, lsd and I'm at 30pts total. I don't think it's worth removing some of those mods to stay within TT-D so plan would be to run in C and while having room for 9 additional points (probably would use towards weight svings). I looked at the list of TT-C cars and I think I can actually compete in that category. Sure they include 135/335i but they're also dinged with 14pts to begin with so chances are many of them would be pushed to TTB.

The Concern
So with that said, my questions/concerns. One thing I always liked about DE was the safe environment. Risk of incident being somewhat minimal (at least compared to club racing). NASA TT runs with either its own group or combined with HPDE-4 so is it safe to assume that it's still as safe as HPDE, but everything is just moving at a faster pace? Also, do insurance companies such as Lockton cover TT or is it HPDE strictly? Lastly, if it is more "dangerous", should I not bother and just stick with HPDE4 (or another way put am I not missing out on much by sticking with HPDE 4 and just getting my own lap times)?
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Last edited by 3002 tii; 10-23-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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      10-28-2012, 01:00 AM   #2
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Nasa TT is a lot faster than group 4 and safer. Group 4 is fun and good for the ego, but it is a little scary when there are some that just moved from group 3 and others that are seasoned in high HP monsters.

I don't know of any insurance.

Check out the lap records in your class and track, which will give you a idea of speeds. You will need to run Hoosiers or similar tire to be competitive. Suspension, weight loss, and tires are the best points to take. You probably have some weight to lose since the weight listed is with driver.
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      10-28-2012, 08:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seank View Post
Nasa TT is a lot faster than group 4 and safer. Group 4 is fun and good for the ego, but it is a little scary when there are some that just moved from group 3 and others that are seasoned in high HP monsters.

I don't know of any insurance.

Check out the lap records in your class and track, which will give you a idea of speeds. You will need to run Hoosiers or similar tire to be competitive. Suspension, weight loss, and tires are the best points to take. You probably have some weight to lose since the weight listed is with driver.
Right now base points plus mods put me at limit of TTD. My current lap times put me on the top of the list of drivers there. Problem is my oem aero trim counts as full aero points which is an additional +11, so unless I remove them I'd actually be in TTC. C in my region is pretty sparse so for that reason I may place but when I check times from nearby regions I'm 3-4 seconds behind. Maybe seat time + Hoosiers could fix that. But that is my current situation...
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      10-28-2012, 11:52 AM   #4
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You can probably pick up some cheap non-aero trim and use that to race, and use those points elsewhere. The front bumper is really easy to swap, I'm sure you know. Plus, you wont damage the nice aero bumper on the track
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      10-29-2012, 07:49 AM   #5
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I compete in Time Attack event here in Qc, Canada for the last 5 years.

I don't think it is more dangerous than HPDE but here no insurance company will cover you for time/competitive events.

I saw some people here using Hoosier A6. They go on the track, do 3 laps and come back into the paddock. Usually, their fastest time were in the 3 first lap so A6 kinda makes sense then.

I use PF01 pads for Time Attack. If you can use full slicks tires, get Michelin or Pirelli slicks and use them just for the time session. Run R-comp or streets tires during practice of those events A full slicks will give you a good 2 sec a lap faster than a R6.
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      10-30-2012, 10:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtfour View Post
I compete in Time Attack event here in Qc, Canada for the last 5 years.

I don't think it is more dangerous than HPDE but here no insurance company will cover you for time/competitive events.

I saw some people here using Hoosier A6. They go on the track, do 3 laps and come back into the paddock. Usually, their fastest time were in the 3 first lap so A6 kinda makes sense then.

I use PF01 pads for Time Attack. If you can use full slicks tires, get Michelin or Pirelli slicks and use them just for the time session. Run R-comp or streets tires during practice of those events A full slicks will give you a good 2 sec a lap faster than a R6.
A full slick points vs r6 points do not make sense when running with Nasa. Use points for suspension, weight, and tires. Maybe some aero if there are points left. You also want to run in a class with other car, so you can beat them and have lots of free hoosiers

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      10-31-2012, 11:40 AM   #7
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I'm getting my competition license with SCCA in the spring. I know SCCA will require some type of comp license, but not sure with NASA. If you get the SCCA license, it'll more than likely open up more competitions you'll be able to attend.

I would think the TT would be possibly safer than you think, because you're competing strictly on time vs. trying to make an impossible pass to place higher. The insurance would only be for HPDE rather than a timed event. I don't think you'll get insurance for your car for a timed event like a TT.

Tires, definitely look into BFG R1. They're not full out slicks so they may be worth less points, but still super sticky and quick.

Your car is super nice and still worth quite a bit. Do yourself a favor and seriously look into getting a full-bore track car. In the end it'll be cheaper and you won't have to cut up your car. I've spent a ton of money on my car and I still wouldn't be competitive if I were to race it. You could buy a used Z4 convertible cheap over the winter and then cage it and mod it and spend about $15 - $20K on it total. Put a small hitch on it and trailer your spare parts/tires with you.
Just a thought.
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      11-01-2012, 01:03 PM   #8
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Just to give some background, our car was a limited dd for the first 5 yrs of life. We would show up at the track with track pads and change the wheels/tires to Hoosier R6 (car has camber plates) and run. Car now has 26000 miles; probably 50% track miles. It is the 2009 NASA TTD national champion driven by my son (Derek).

The front of the car has taken quite a beating (paint chips) but it might not be so bad on eastern tracks. Engine undertray is broken from a couple off track excursions. In it's first five yrs of life as a dd, it was involved in 4 parking lot skirmishes, 3 minor and one major. In short, my track damage body repairs equal about 25% of my street damage repairs!

I've come up through the NASA ranks while my son has come down to TT from Grand-Am. I also instruct with NASA. TT tends to be safer and more controlled than HPDE4 because cars go out on course in order of lap times and most driver's are respectful of others wishing to be timed. Of course, some regions run 4 and TT together.

Unless you're trying to win your class (for contingency prizes or bragging rights---watch out for red mist), IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO HAVE YOUR CAR MAXXED OUT IN CLASS TO RUN TT. While my car is obviously very capable in the hands of the right driver, I generally run at the rear of the TTD or front of the TTE field and am PLACED IN THE APPROPRIATE SPOT by lap time, NOT CLASS.
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      11-01-2012, 01:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekSelmanRacing View Post
Just to give some background, our car was a limited dd for the first 5 yrs of life. We would show up at the track with track pads and change the wheels/tires to Hoosier R6 (car has camber plates) and run. Car now has 26000 miles; probably 50% track miles. It is the 2009 NASA TTD national champion driven by my son (Derek).

The front of the car has taken quite a beating (paint chips) but it might not be so bad on eastern tracks. Engine undertray is broken from a couple off track excursions. In it's first five yrs of life as a dd, it was involved in 4 parking lot skirmishes, 3 minor and one major. In short, my track damage body repairs equal about 25% of my street damage repairs!

I've come up through the NASA ranks while my son has come down to TT from Grand-Am. I also instruct with NASA. TT tends to be safer and more controlled than HPDE4 because cars go out on course in order of lap times and most driver's are respectful of others wishing to be timed. Of course, some regions run 4 and TT together.

Unless you're trying to win your class (for contingency prizes or bragging rights---watch out for red mist), IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO HAVE YOUR CAR MAXXED OUT IN CLASS TO RUN TT. While my car is obviously very capable in the hands of the right driver, I generally run at the rear of the TTD or front of the TTE field and am PLACED IN THE APPROPRIATE SPOT by lap time, NOT CLASS.
Thanks for the insight, so what would you recommend... running in D with max points (no Hoosiers but DOT non-rcomps like Star Specs) or going all out and trying to run in C (E36 M3 and race-prepped s2k's)?

RE: bumper, after 15 track days per year, my bumper isn't any better... next time I do a respray I may put some clear bra on it.
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      11-01-2012, 01:23 PM   #10
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If your car is a DD, let the car be what it is and run in whatever class that is...my point is that you can have the same FUN whatever class you run in.
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      11-01-2012, 01:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekSelmanRacing View Post
If your car is a DD, let the car be what it is and run in whatever class that is...my point is that you can have the same FUN whatever class you run in.
It's not my daily but just not ready to tear it up, gut it and slap on big aero parts. Thing is I want to be competitive eventually, guess I'm getting to the part where I want to drive with some end goal in mind, as DE is sorta losing its fun factor for me.
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      11-01-2012, 02:42 PM   #12
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If you're a competitive driver and if you're running NASA, I'd go to TTC because of the Hoosier contingency program.
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