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      04-28-2012, 09:33 AM   #1
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Need help!!! Tire rubbing on perches with front coilovers

Hi,

I just got my KW Clubsport and I am installing them right now. I installed the rear without any problem.

But I have issue with the front. I don't have camber plates. I tought I would be able to use the spacer washers for camber. But the wheels got in contact with the springs perches. After I removed the washers, I have some space but still really close to the strut.

How do you guys run 265/35R18 up front on 18x9.5 et35????????

I have Apex 18X9.5 et22 with 245/40r18 and don't have any room left for my other sets of wheels 18x9.5 et35 offset with 265/35r18...

The distance from center of the wheels to fender is 14''.

Am I doing something wrong??

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      04-28-2012, 10:12 AM   #2
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No unfortunately if you can't add a spacer you will need to get camber plates unless you can run without the shim but that offset if pretty aggressive in the front. The issue with the shims is that they can cause the very issue you are having!

Good luck, but I think your best solution is camber plates.

Last edited by sabbanick; 04-28-2012 at 11:06 AM.
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      04-28-2012, 10:57 AM   #3
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You need camber plates!
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      04-28-2012, 11:38 AM   #4
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^WHS

Camber plates provide camber differently than camber washers and will give you the space you need to clear the strut and perch. It's all about where the angle providing the camber is changed.

If I were buying I'd consider Vorshlag, or Ground Control.
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      04-28-2012, 11:41 AM   #5
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i have a pair of 5mm spacers i can sell you if you need them as well
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      04-28-2012, 11:55 AM   #6
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I understand the space you gain with the camber plates vs shim kit.

But even without shims and with camber plates, is it possible to fit a 18x9.5 et35? I understand my et22 is an agressive fitment but they are helping me right now vs the et35 which would be closer to the strut body. Even my 18x9 et42 have problem to fit there without a 10mm spacers...
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      04-28-2012, 12:13 PM   #7
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18x9.5 Et 35 fits even with 5mm spacer w/o camber plates or even the shim for that matter on stock dampeners/h&r springs.
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      04-28-2012, 12:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabbanick View Post
18x9.5 Et 35 fits even with 5mm spacer w/o camber plates or even the shim for that matter on stock dampeners/h&r springs.
I know they fit with stock strut design, there is a lot more space with a stock strut than a coilovers strut body.

Ok I will just get 2x 18x9.5 e22 to replace my 18x9.5 et35.
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      04-28-2012, 01:02 PM   #9
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The ideal offset up front is around 30-35 for coupe. There is a lot more play in fender well of e46...you can get by with a more aggressive offset but you have proven to us that you will need camber plates if you have KW suspension.
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      04-28-2012, 02:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtfour View Post
I know they fit with stock strut design, there is a lot more space with a stock strut than a coilovers strut body.

Ok I will just get 2x 18x9.5 e22 to replace my 18x9.5 et35.
If you're talking about et22 up front I would advise against it. Scrub radius is optimal on et42 in front, 35 can be okay with enough negative camber to offset the change in scrub radius. The further away from et42 you go (35, 30, and down) the more the scrub radius moves from negative into zero or even positive territory, which leads to handling issues. See this thread, with great insight from The Hack on why offset matters a lot and why it's a huge component in the handling/stability of the car. (Apologies if you know this already--I didn't--and I learned a lot.)
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      04-28-2012, 04:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtfour View Post
I understand the space you gain with the camber plates vs shim kit.

But even without shims and with camber plates, is it possible to fit a 18x9.5 et35? I understand my et22 is an agressive fitment but they are helping me right now vs the et35 which would be closer to the strut body. Even my 18x9 et42 have problem to fit there without a 10mm spacers...
I have a detailed description of my 18x9.5 35 wheel and 265/35 18 Star Spec with OE strut set up at kklin's Z4 M Coupe for SCCA BSP (road tire).
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      04-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kklin View Post
I have a detailed description of my 18x9.5 35 wheel and 265/35 18 Star Spec with OE strut set up at kklin's Z4 M Coupe for SCCA BSP (road tire).

Trail has been blazed and signs posted. Excellent!
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      05-01-2012, 05:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
If you're talking about et22 up front I would advise against it. Scrub radius is optimal on et42 in front, 35 can be okay with enough negative camber to offset the change in scrub radius. The further away from et42 you go (35, 30, and down) the more the scrub radius moves from negative into zero or even positive territory, which leads to handling issues. See this thread, with great insight from The Hack on why offset matters a lot and why it's a huge component in the handling/stability of the car. (Apologies if you know this already--I didn't--and I learned a lot.)
Thanks good info here

I will keep my et22 for the street (look)and my et35 for the track.

Definitaly need camber plates.

I didn't ordered the KW camber plates cause I don't like them. I will go with the Vorshlag instead.
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      05-01-2012, 05:02 AM   #14
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Here are some pics with the coilovers installed:



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      05-01-2012, 08:35 AM   #15
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sitting very pretty !
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      05-01-2012, 06:51 PM   #16
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perfect
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      05-02-2012, 12:07 PM   #17
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^ just curious, as it currently sits what is the height from center of wheel to fender on both front and rears? do you recall what it was for stock also?
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      05-02-2012, 06:27 PM   #18
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Camber plates will not help you with rubbing on the perches. A camber plate moves the strut body along with the hub assembly at the same time. In other words if you dial in -1 degree of camber to the camber plate it will move the strut body -1 degree and also the wheel -1 degree. Shims are the exact opposite as they work by spacing the bottom of the strut out therefore moving the top of the tire closer to the strut. You wil need a spacer to run the stop the contact between the wheel and the perch. I am running a the 18x9.5 apex wheel in the front with a 255/35/18 front tire and a 5mm spacer.

I am currently in the process of fitting 275/35/18 hoo hoo R6 in the front and my main issue is contact with the strut but I have an idea that I think might solve that. I can't space the wheel out anymore some have to find room on the inside. Square 275slicks here I come!
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      05-02-2012, 09:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F360C View Post
Camber plates will not help you with rubbing on the perches. A camber plate moves the strut body along with the hub assembly at the same time. In other words if you dial in -1 degree of camber to the camber plate it will move the strut body -1 degree and also the wheel -1 degree. Shims are the exact opposite as they work by spacing the bottom of the strut out therefore moving the top of the tire closer to the strut. You wil need a spacer to run the stop the contact between the wheel and the perch. I am running a the 18x9.5 apex wheel in the front with a 255/35/18 front tire and a 5mm spacer.

I am currently in the process of fitting 275/35/18 hoo hoo R6 in the front and my main issue is contact with the strut but I have an idea that I think might solve that. I can't space the wheel out anymore some have to find room on the inside. Square 275slicks here I come!
Today on the alignment lift, I was able to get a bit more of negative camber with the kingpin. So when I will put the camber plates on the car, I will have to move the kingpin on the opposite way to make more room between the tires/wheels and perches.

Right now, the camber is -2.7 front and -2.0 rear. I put the toe at 0 front and rear just to minimize the wear on my street tires. I don't really like this setup so far but it's the best compromiseI could do to fit the tires under the fenders...

I might participate saturday evening into a Gentleman's race at Calabogie Motorsport Park. I hope the car will be OK on the track.

I also need to adjust the rebound / compression on my KW Clubsport. Anyone have a idea how should I start them as a baseline?

They have 18 clicks, I put the compression at -4 clicks front and rear from the stiffer. And the rebound is set at -6 clicks front and rear.
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      05-08-2012, 02:25 PM   #20
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I've recently bought a Z4MC and can't make my mind up whether to go for the KW V3 or Clubsport with the adjustable top mounts. I'd appreciate some feedback from you guys.

Does the front set up for the KW V3 for the Z4 MC stop the front of the car lifting under hard acceleration and pitching under hard braking? This is the characteristic of the Z4MC that I really dislike the most and if the KW V3 stops this, then I think this would suit my purpose. I'm not really bothered about lowering the car by much. If the KWV3 wouldn't cure this problem, then I'd have to consider the Clubsports.

Are the front adjustable top mounts with the Clubsports solid bushings or are they similar to the OEM with rubber bushing?

How much camber and caster can you dial in with the adjustable top mounts on the Clubsports?

If I keep to the OEM double 5 spoke alloy wheels with OEM tyres sizes, will I need spacers with Clubsports, and if so, what size and would I also need longer bolts to fit?

Are the adjusters on the Clubsports the usual KW adjusters that use a 2mm hex key and pin for rear bump, or are they the new style with adjusting knobs?

When the Clubsport dampers are set on their softest settings is the ride comfortable and compliant on the street with bumpy roads, or would the KWV3 be a much better ride in this situation?

Thanks for any help and advice
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      08-08-2012, 05:15 AM   #21
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I am running the KW Clubsports and the Turner bolt/washer kit with 18x8.5 et38 and 12mm spacers (effective offset is 26) up front with lots of room to the perch. With your 9.5et22 setup you have 9mm less room on the inside which is a bit less that the total room I have - so you are borderline already. If you lower the car to move the perch down into the barrel area of the wheel, you will get the space on the inside but may start to rub on the outside. Def curious to how you and F360C solved this ...

I am running 7 clicks clockwise for compression and 12 clicks for rebound up front and 7/11 out back. With -1.8 out back and -2.3 up front and 245/275 PS2s all around, the car was a little "loose"/tail happy (for me) at Lightning on Monday at its first outing.

I was running KW V3s for about 2 years before the switch and the Clubsports offer a crisper steering response and the car seems to have more grip than before- I can run about the same lap times and feel like there is more in the tank. I will have more feedback after getting more time on this setup.

Bottom line - if you track the car more than 7-8 days a year and the road around you are decent, the Clubsports are the way to go. If the roads around you have lots of expansion joints, construction transitions etc, then V3s are a better all around setup.
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      08-08-2012, 05:36 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pal View Post
I am running the KW Clubsports and the Turner bolt/washer kit with 18x8.5 et38 and 12mm spacers (effective offset is 26) up front with lots of room to the perch. With your 9.5et22 setup you have 9mm less room on the inside which is a bit less that the total room I have - so you are borderline already. If you lower the car to move the perch down into the barrel area of the wheel, you will get the space on the inside but may start to rub on the outside. Def curious to how you and F360C solved this ...

I am running 7 clicks clockwise for compression and 12 clicks for rebound up front and 7/11 out back. With -1.8 out back and -2.3 up front and 245/275 PS2s all around, the car was a little "loose"/tail happy (for me) at Lightning on Monday at its first outing.

I was running KW V3s for about 2 years before the switch and the Clubsports offer a crisper steering response and the car seems to have more grip than before- I can run about the same lap times and feel like there is more in the tank. I will have more feedback after getting more time on this setup.

Bottom line - if you track the car more than 7-8 days a year and the road around you are decent, the Clubsports are the way to go. If the roads around you have lots of expansion joints, construction transitions etc, then V3s are a better all around setup.
i also went with installing my camber shims to my clubsports, i get more camber earlier on the top mount dial as the opening up top limits what you can get without dropping the strut.... so far im very pleased with that decision in terms of the camber shims added at install of the clubsports.

i run a 19 x 8.5 et 34, i have loads of space from the front perch but then again even though im running the camber shims, my 8.5" rim and et 34 are not agressive at all, ill will drop the perch directly to rim height and re-measure the gap and report back.. i believe kw asks for a 4mm minimum gap.
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