Zeitgeist on Federal Reserve

[carve]

New wealth is created by producing goods and services people demand- not by waving a pen.

You could still owe someone the equivelent of a gram of gold or bushel of wheat without that gold or wheat actually existing; you settle the debt by just produce something else that is in demand that, if it were to be traded for gold or wheat on the open market, would be worth the same amount.

When the fed creates new money, their are more dollars on the market, but no more goods and services. This makes your existing money worth less than it was before.

[Javi335]

im not discussin totally the process of create money, when how and why, im talking about the power of print it, sounds like the same thing but is not

i told you, this come for centuries ago, adapted through the years

we all agree on one thing; is not clear how they do and we know isnt fair

thats why i say is waste time on

[txz4]

Originally Posted by carve

New wealth is created by producing goods and services people demand- not by waving a pen.

You could still owe someone the equivelent of a gram of gold or bushel of wheat without that gold or wheat actually existing; you settle the debt by just produce something else that is in demand that, if it were to be traded for gold or wheat on the open market, would be worth the same amount.

When the fed creates new money, their are more dollars on the market, but no more goods and services. This makes your existing money worth less than it was before.

Regardless of the Fed and its current methods or if we did what the money market matters people want and use the gov to directly print funds, we still will have inflation and i argued earlier, more so. If we were to back our funds with a commodity, I.E. Gold, ive already spoken to what would happen and the video that Mact posted also goes deeper into this dilemma.

According to all those with understanding of the issue, the only two options are to use the current model that the Fed uses, with on or two differences, or to have the government entirely responsible for printing funds without recourse (short of inflation of course).


carve, it sounds to me like Javi is advocating for the government being entirely responsible. I also understand your issue is that money shouldn't be created out of thin air, but lets remember that inflation caused by our system affects the wealthiest far more than those on the bottom, thus it forces the wealthy to stay in the market and thus fund the bottom instead of staying out, the capital gains tax furthers this goal. If we didnt have this system we would suffer FAR slower growth.

[mact3333]

Money Masters is so boring I would rather pay 10.00 a gallon for gas bwahhhaaahhhh....

Originally Posted by Javi335

heres another well knowed i guess many of you've had seen it before, but anyway

[mact3333]

Govts will always overspend...human nature...govt prints bonds but gotta pay interest...if they print money themselves, the can save the interest...cant buy argument spending would be more out of control cause it cant get any worse than we have seen anyway.

Inflation hurts the poor more as the things you need to live on use up more
percentage of wages for poor people...what do rich people care if gas is 4.00 a gallon.?...annoyance vs taking the bus.

Originally Posted by txz4

Regardless of the Fed and its current methods or if we did what the money market matters people want and use the gov to directly print funds, we still will have inflation and i argued earlier, more so. If we were to back our funds with a commodity, I.E. Gold, ive already spoken to what would happen and the video that Mact posted also goes deeper into this dilemma.

According to all those with understanding of the issue, the only two options are to use the current model that the Fed uses, with on or two differences, or to have the government entirely responsible for printing funds without recourse (short of inflation of course).


carve, it sounds to me like Javi is advocating for the government being entirely responsible. I also understand your issue is that money shouldn't be created out of thin air, but lets remember that inflation caused by our system affects the wealthiest far more than those on the bottom, thus it forces the wealthy to stay in the market and thus fund the bottom instead of staying out, the capital gains tax furthers this goal. If we didnt have this system we would suffer FAR slower growth.

[mact3333]

The prez has to choose from a list given by the central bank so no the prexz doesnt choose really.

The Fed doesnt answer to congress...have you heard some of Bernankes testimonies to congress?

Originally Posted by carve

txz-
Your issue is over who should have the power to create money out of thin air. My point is that it's wrong for anyone to create money out of thin air. It is stealing from the rest of us.

I wonder how much "growth" our economy sees is really due to the dollar values of things increasing due to inflation.

The fed isn't entirely private though. The president appoints the chairman, and congress grants them special powers. They produce no goods or services of value to earn their money- they just create the money out of nothing. The interest they collect from the federal government isn't any kind of invesement in something with earning potential; it's merely buying the right (with money they didn't earn) to use governemnt force to take money from taxpayers at some future date. And, if there aren't enough tax payers to pay for the interest, the government will just borrow more.

[Javi335]

Here in europe we got kinda the same history. The BCE dont loan money to the central banks of each country, they do to private banks, and then those to the goberments. When 2008 shits happen i remember how the goberment has to save banks for free, and then the banks buying that national debt on the markets. Insane.

Or the number of ex goldman sachs executives in Europe banks and organism, Draghi for not going too far.

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by mact3333

Money Masters is so boring I would rather pay 10.00 a gallon for gas bwahhhaaahhhh....

only the duration makes you think twice. and i think these videos ad even more confussion

[txz4]

Originally Posted by mact3333

Govts will always overspend...human nature...govt prints bonds but gotta pay interest...if they print money themselves, the can save the interest...cant buy argument spending would be more out of control cause it cant get any worse than we have seen anyway.

Inflation hurts the poor more as the things you need to live on use up more
percentage of wages for poor people...what do rich people care if gas is 4.00 a gallon.?...annoyance vs taking the bus.

i disagree, i think they could and would spend MUCH more. And as far as it hurting the poor more, it was you earlier who said that there are no wage improvements for those around the 50,000 earnings scale (dont remember the exact info) This inflation, though one could argue it hurts the rich less, there is much more money being lost due to inflation compared to those without as much, this causes a push into the market to combat inflation, just like the lower capital gains tax rate.

i think the money market video, was good because those who believe in a gold standard finally have some good information contrary to what they might believe, though i of course disagree with the solutions they bring up and i think the British gentleman in the purple sweater (name?) agrees with me to an extent.

[Javi335]

gentlemans, in my opinion; the crisis is not fixed because, obviusly, they dont want to fix it

so dont look for solutions, some people work so hard to made all goes to hell

my men mact3 know it, i know it, and you, deep inside, know it

[carve]

Originally Posted by txz4

carve, it sounds to me like Javi is advocating for the government being entirely responsible. I also understand your issue is that money shouldn't be created out of thin air, but lets remember that inflation caused by our system affects the wealthiest far more than those on the bottom, thus it forces the wealthy to stay in the market and thus fund the bottom instead of staying out, the capital gains tax furthers this goal. If we didnt have this system we would suffer FAR slower growth.

Not that it really matters who it hurts worse, but wages tend to lag behind inflation. Inflation really only benefits those deeply in debt.

If rich people took money out of the market, unless the put it into a scrooge McDuck money bin, they'd deposit it in a bank. This would make more money available to lend and drive down interest rates.

If the government wanted more money than it had, it would have to sell bonds directly to the public rather than just calling the fed and have them print money. This would be harder and far more effective in controlling government spending.

[txz4]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...150433185.html

if their was any confusion.

P.s. read the Ron Paul supporters comments LOL

[txz4]

Originally Posted by Javi335

gentlemans, in my opinion; the crisis is not fixed because, obviusly, they dont want to fix it

so dont look for solutions, some people work so hard to made all goes to hell

my men mact3 know it, i know it, and you, deep inside, know it

its not deep inside that i know it. I know it absolutely. Gov has no interest in doing anything to help our national debt, hence why i believe what i believe.

Carve, it would drive down interest rates if they were to just deposit it, the problem though is that the investments they make are by necessity higher risk then the loans a bank would make, thus growth would slow as those needing the loans but were of higher risk wouldnt get them. for example the BioMed field often requires HUGE investment with very high risk of return.

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by txz4

its not deep inside that i know it. I know it absolutely.

jajajaj!

not many people can say what we think and not bat an eyelash

my apollogies for the other post mister, you deserve it

a great movie

[txz4]

Originally Posted by Javi335

jajajaj!

not many people can say what we think and not bat an eyelash

my apollogies for the other post mister, you deserve it

a great movie

lol i was arguing what i think would work and why and further more what would happen, naturally this requires someone to take action, which like you said, of course they have no interest in making things better. The powers that be, prefer to give the people a carrot every once in a while in the form of welfare to keep them quite and uninterested in the bigger picture, very "brave new world" esque.

If you read brave new world revisited and of course "brave new world" and "1984" its letters between the writers talking about each ones distopian view. People are so afraid that the government is going to strong arm everyone like in "1984", but those in the know understand that they can do far more damage by just giving the uniformed, unintelligent public what they want "brave new world". they push walfare, freedom, education, more money less work. All this and the price to pay is freedom to do anything other than following what they want.

I really do think, obviously not to the above degree, that this is our biggest problem.

[Javi335]

Originally Posted by mact3333

The Fed doesnt answer to congress...have you heard some of Bernankes testimonies to congress?

yes, he answer

-Chairman: what you gonna do to solve the problem?

-Ben: lakers play shit yesterday, i agree

-Chairman: dont you think those inflation leves are bad?

-Ben: one fish, two fish , red fish, blue fish, nick nack patty wack, give a dog a bone

2 thousand 0 0 party woop, outa time ... ops! my beacon smelling fine