ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-21-2011, 12:19 PM   #45
Fraser-Z4
New Member
 
Drives: Z4
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: England

Posts: 21
iTrader: (0)

Hi Guys,

I've currently got a UK '2.5i' N52 with 177bhp, this already has a three stage intake manifold as standard, however the UK '2.5si' with 214bhp (both cars are 2500cc) also has a three stage manifold with a different part number - 11617559526 vs 11617559525. I'm guessing the one fitted to my car is slightly more restrictive (it is the only engine components with a different part number between the two engines), so I'm swapping it for the manifold off the 'Si'.

I'm looking for a used one but does it matter what mileage car the manifold comes from - is it a part that may wear out with age/mileage? I'm guessing not as it's got no moving parts - I'll be using my own DISA actuators.

Cheers
Fraser-Z4 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-21-2011, 01:04 PM   #46
-c-
Captain
 
Drives: Z4 3.0I, MINI cooper S, 135IS
Join Date: May 2010
Location: wheaton, Il

Posts: 806
iTrader: (4)

well im geussing as long as you get the manifold of the 2.5SI and not the 3.0 you should be fine. Normally used manifolds already come with the disa motors so keep the others for spares, you will also need a tune taking advantage of the manifold so you will want to take it to a dyno someware and have a custom tune for your car so it more resembles the map of the SI vertion of your car. then you should get close to the numbers if not at the numbers of the SI.

dyno results show an increase of 10HP gain on the 3.0I with just the manifold swap and no dyno tuning.
-c- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-24-2011, 03:08 PM   #47
3002 tii
Major General
 
3002 tii's Avatar
 
Drives: flat out
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NNJ

Posts: 8,288
iTrader: (46)

Garage List
not to take away from this mod, but i think some people really under estimate the engineering that went into these cars. yes, the 3 stage manifold swap gets you close but there are clearly other factors to consider, of which are not easy to get around. this thread here addresses one of the issues with the valvetronics:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492995

but Gavin sums it up well when he says:

"without an actually recoding of the ECU to allow for a higher models specs (re VIN and code the DME and Tranny), only so much can be done within a tune itself."
__________________

Recaro | Volk | AST | Vorshlag | Quaife | Stoptech | Active Autowerke | BMW Performance

Click here for my track videos
3002 tii is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-25-2011, 12:12 AM   #48
-c-
Captain
 
Drives: Z4 3.0I, MINI cooper S, 135IS
Join Date: May 2010
Location: wheaton, Il

Posts: 806
iTrader: (4)

Craven is a great guy but unfortunately he's not correct about everything. and their is something I'm planning that will knock your socks off hopefully spring to summer ...also their is a way you can make your I think its an Si without even flashing the ecu .....wrap ones mind around that lol. found out how to do it a bot ago and its easier than you would think.

also you have to think of it like how Apple kept trying to keep people from jailbraking the iphone, the day the patch was released they hacked it. their is very few systems out their that can't be cracked and BMW systems though a pain are no different and in the hands of a skilled tuner its amazing what can happen.

also this all is relatively new, give it time. Shoot the mini when it came out people said it was impossible to hit 200hp now that's been blown away and people are chasing 300hp.

but again you'll see some very cool things coming soon.

You have to have an open mind.
-c- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-25-2011, 12:23 AM   #49
-c-
Captain
 
Drives: Z4 3.0I, MINI cooper S, 135IS
Join Date: May 2010
Location: wheaton, Il

Posts: 806
iTrader: (4)

Plus I know their are a few Si owners who want this to fail as they don't like the idea of a bunch of I's running with their cars ....had a couple PM's from people who didn't like the idea and gave me a bunch of false info before I even did the mod. But as with everything....anything is possible given enufe time and patience....it may not be worth it for some but I like a challenge, hence the dual M exhaust on an I. I head that was somewhat not feasible either.


Hey I'm having fun and sharing my experiences with others nobody has to do it but the options are their.

Hugz.
-c- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-25-2011, 07:35 AM   #50
Z4Murder
Major
 
Z4Murder's Avatar
 
Drives: > speed limit
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY

Posts: 1,048
iTrader: (1)

i like your mindset and originality
__________________
2007 TiAg ///MCoupe
{} Dinan strut bars {} ZHP knob {} RPI scoop {} Ultimate Pedals {} RE Diablo {} 9500ix {} 3.91 TMS gears {} Forgestar F14 {} Gruppe-M {} Nitto NT05 {} TMS pullies {} Zeck CDV {} RE tranny mounts {} Tekarbon {} Mstache 2 {}
New ride: '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi... No more snow for the M!
Z4Murder is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-25-2011, 09:02 AM   #51
3002 tii
Major General
 
3002 tii's Avatar
 
Drives: flat out
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NNJ

Posts: 8,288
iTrader: (46)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
Plus I know their are a few Si owners who want this to fail as they don't like the idea of a bunch of I's running with their cars ....had a couple PM's from people who didn't like the idea and gave me a bunch of false info before I even did the mod. But as with everything....anything is possible given enufe time and patience....it may not be worth it for some but I like a challenge, hence the dual M exhaust on an I. I head that was somewhat not feasible either.


Hey I'm having fun and sharing my experiences with others nobody has to do it but the options are their.

Hugz.
If you're implying that I was being a hater, that was not the intent of my post. I just wanted to give everyone the newest "update" on this mod seeing how it was the folks at e90 who originated the process.
__________________

Recaro | Volk | AST | Vorshlag | Quaife | Stoptech | Active Autowerke | BMW Performance

Click here for my track videos
3002 tii is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-25-2011, 09:48 AM   #52
inTgr8r
Major General
 
inTgr8r's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 M Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto

Posts: 8,009
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
Hey I'm having fun and sharing my experiences with others nobody has to do it but the options are their.

Hugz.
That's what it's all about.
Nice work C.
__________________
Alpinweiss '07 M Coupe •DKF Section1•RPi GT exhaust•Fabspeed Headers•VRS Hyper-Narrow rear wing•Autosolutions SSK•APR splitter•Tekarbon headlights•StrongStrut STB•KW Clubsport•H&R ARBs c/w Turner Adj Links•Poly FCAB/RTAB•Volk Racing G2•Direzza ZII•Stoptech BBK•Vibra-Tech mtr mounts•
inTgr8r is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      02-25-2011, 09:50 AM   #53
-c-
Captain
 
Drives: Z4 3.0I, MINI cooper S, 135IS
Join Date: May 2010
Location: wheaton, Il

Posts: 806
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
If you're implying that I was being a hater, that was not the intent of my post. I just wanted to give everyone the newest "update" on this mod seeing how it was the folks at e90 who originated the process.
yea it sure is getting heated over their!!!!

either way, you have the people say it can’t yet others say it can, it’s just a big war over there, lol exciting.


naa Dubbedown I know your cool, just was pointing out that not everything one hears on the internet is necessarily true, I’m in the auto industry myself and have a friend that works in BMW design in Germany and things are not as complicated as it would seem.
everybody has different skill sets, and I’ve seen some amazing things that others can do that others say can’t be done, hence why when people say this is beyond our skill level, I take it more as its beyond their skill level not mine, the people I work with everyday design these systems and it’s their normal everyday job, but when you talk to the public it’s like they look at you like rocket scientists.

One funny story is, BMW could not fix the stumble problem on their MINI cooper S platform, and a friend of mine broke BMW's code reworked the ECM programming and got rid of it. took it to the dealer and met with a rep, worked with BMW on the problem and BMW took the data, tested it and viola it worked and used his programming to fix the stumble. it helped in this matter he was a creditable engineer in a automotive software company. What I’m getting at is the world works in funny ways, and don’t say it can’t be done until everything has been exhausted. theirs a big difference in making a marketable software or item to sell, and if it’s not within a price range its considered imposable to do. VS. just a one off that the person involved can achieve anything they deem is right for them, and spared no expense.


for instance making a kit or setup for dual exhaust on an I or Si would make no sense for a company and be considered non-doable because of the price and complexity, you’re better off buying an M, so you probably will find no body will jump in to make this a viable option unless you go it alone. but for me, I get the engine I want with the car I like and now I get the look I want. benefits to me is drivability, low maintenance engine, low insurance premiums and a beautiful car to cruise in.

again I’m not saying anybody is hating I’m just talking in generals.
-c- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-25-2011, 10:01 AM   #54
-c-
Captain
 
Drives: Z4 3.0I, MINI cooper S, 135IS
Join Date: May 2010
Location: wheaton, Il

Posts: 806
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
That's what it's all about.
Nice work C.


Thanks Man!


Hey if I stopped every time someone told me the situation is not going to work or is imposable to achieve id never had achieved in life what I have.

it’s about breaking the mold and going against the grain that gives me the energy to get up in the morning, probably why I’m a designer, I love to challenge myself and it give me a great sense of accomplishment when I can look back and say to myself "I did that" or look at my friend and say look what we accomplished together! it’s quite gratifying from time to time.

-c- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-25-2011, 10:19 AM   #55
-c-
Captain
 
Drives: Z4 3.0I, MINI cooper S, 135IS
Join Date: May 2010
Location: wheaton, Il

Posts: 806
iTrader: (4)

sorry for all the long posts,

but either way you slice it, this is an excellent mod that does gain you more HP and torque than most any other mod out there and its technically the cheapest.

and its STOCK! lol

$250 for a manifold with valve adjusters (used)
and 300 for base tune.

and the outcome is more HP than any exhaust or intake and is cheaper or at similar cost.

if anything this mod should be embraced as its the cheapest HP to dollar amount that can be had on any non M z4
-c- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-26-2011, 06:58 PM   #56
Fraser-Z4
New Member
 
Drives: Z4
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: England

Posts: 21
iTrader: (0)

The thing is though a couple of people have done the swap over on e90post and it's worked (budvlad & e90pilot I think) so I can't see why people are saying there are other limiting factors?

It's possible that the vin coding on the ECU limits the valvetronic adjustment but I don't think there's any evidence of this. I know a few of the UK tuners are able to freely adjust the valvetronic lift.
Fraser-Z4 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-09-2011, 11:20 PM   #57
kirkpart2
Private First Class
 
kirkpart2's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Melbourne, Florida

Posts: 120
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedown View Post
not to take away from this mod, but i think some people really under estimate the engineering that went into these cars. yes, the 3 stage manifold swap gets you close but there are clearly other factors to consider, of which are not easy to get around. this thread here addresses one of the issues with the valvetronics:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492995

but Gavin sums it up well when he says:

"without an actually recoding of the ECU to allow for a higher models specs (re VIN and code the DME and Tranny), only so much can be done within a tune itself."
Success story .... ..... I don't know nearly as much as most people here but at 20 bucks a HP (which I can truly feel on the road) i think it was worth it for me

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499389
__________________
BMW Performance | SuperSprint | 17" M3 CSL Replica's | Active Autowerke | Stop Tech | RPI | 3.0I to 3.0SI Conversion
kirkpart2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-14-2011, 11:10 PM   #58
-c-
Captain
 
Drives: Z4 3.0I, MINI cooper S, 135IS
Join Date: May 2010
Location: wheaton, Il

Posts: 806
iTrader: (4)

hey guys just updated the DIY with some new info from AirOpsMgr, he just got done with the install and gave some tips!


a big thanks goes out to him.


also stay tuned to the ecu update coming, this should put us at or above SI hp as it will be able to truly recode the ecu using true BMW SI programming on our I ecu's so this will not be a "tuned I software" but a true recode with stock OEM SI tune or tuned SI map running on the I ECU...

very exciting!
-c- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-14-2011, 11:47 PM   #59
AirOpsMgr
Private First Class
 
AirOpsMgr's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: McDonough, GA

Posts: 151
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
hey guys just updated the DIY with some new info from AirOpsMgr, he just got done with the install and gave some tips!


a big thanks goes out to him.


also stay tuned to the ecu update coming, this should put us at or above SI hp as it will be able to truly recode the ecu using true BMW SI programming on our I ecu's so this will not be a "tuned I software" but a true recode with stock OEM SI tune or tuned SI map running on the I ECU...

very exciting!
Well, the real thanks goes to -C- for the DIY to start with; following the instructions, I had the old manifold out in a few hours (it took a while as I was double and triple checking everything that I disconnected, labeled everything, etc).

The manifold I got (from an 06' 530i) came with lots of extra parts still attached, so I had to remove the things I didn't need and transfer a few things over from my manifold, but didn't take long.

The installation of the new one is pretty straight forward, especially after learning where everythings goes and how it connects; I'd say it was about an hour to put it back together and another 30 mins to turn the engine on, check all the connections, etc. I was pleased to see no warning lights, had no odd or stranges noises ...... the engine actually sounds like its running smoother ..... perhaps a placebo effect, but thats my story and I'm sticking to it!

Once on the road, it was a noticeable improvement; my first gear pegged 7K more quickly than before and could feel the difference in how she pulled harder through the gears (I also have the K&N drop in high-flow filter which helps a bit as well).

I am very eager to get the SI tuned ECU flash, and by the looks of it, -C- is on the right track and it should be coming around pretty soon. I think he is still looking for interested parties for a group buy.......

Brgds/Greg

Last edited by AirOpsMgr; 08-14-2011 at 11:59 PM.
AirOpsMgr is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-18-2011, 09:11 PM   #60
AirOpsMgr
Private First Class
 
AirOpsMgr's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: McDonough, GA

Posts: 151
iTrader: (0)

Here are the Dyno figures after swapping out the original manifold for the 3 stage.

My setup is a 2006 3.0i (N52), 3 stage intake manifold, K&N high-flow drop in filter with air-box charcoal filter delete (No ECU tuning yet) - Best run was 191.0 hp / 176.0 ft/Ls torque (add 20% loss according to the Dyno guy) and that puts me at 229.2 HP

Name:  2006 Z4 3.0i dyno.jpg
Views: 1575
Size:  139.7 KB
AirOpsMgr is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-20-2011, 12:39 AM   #61
MHeavNC
Turd in the Punch Bowl
 
MHeavNC's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0i /// 2008 M Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Carolina

Posts: 229
iTrader: (0)

Nice results....Do you also have the updated cylinder head? I noticed my car seems to have more torque and HP since I have had mine replaced.. I can't wait to install the three stage... Hopefully this fall...

Last edited by MHeavNC; 08-20-2011 at 07:29 PM.
MHeavNC is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-20-2011, 08:53 AM   #62
AirOpsMgr
Private First Class
 
AirOpsMgr's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Z4 3.0i
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: McDonough, GA

Posts: 151
iTrader: (0)

No, unfortunately I bought mine out of warranty and "as-is", previous owner never had the head replaced with the updated version. I only get ticking if I let it sit for a few days, so I don't think I'll be dropping the cash to replace it anytime soon.

I've only spent $350 to get HP gains that you see (would have only been $250 if I would have shopped for a better deal on the intake manifold, but I was in a rush), not sure how much more HP I would get with the updated head, but that is an interesting point!

Last edited by AirOpsMgr; 08-20-2011 at 11:21 AM.
AirOpsMgr is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-14-2011, 11:02 PM   #63
MHeavNC
Turd in the Punch Bowl
 
MHeavNC's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Z4 3.0i /// 2008 M Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Carolina

Posts: 229
iTrader: (0)

Noticed this list on the 3 Series forum... Do I need to get the new screws and vent hose??


11617559523 Intake Manifold
11617559530 Vent Hose
11617579114 Adjustor Unit
11617560538 Adjustor Unit 2
11617547242 Gasket set
11617535849 x5 Screw 50x20
11617535850 x2 Screw 50x35
11617535851 x1 Screw 50x66

Also, for those who have made the swap and still running the stock tune,...... how is it running??? Does it seem that your ECU is slowly adapting,..... somewhat??
MHeavNC is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-19-2011, 10:28 PM   #64
-c-
Captain
 
Drives: Z4 3.0I, MINI cooper S, 135IS
Join Date: May 2010
Location: wheaton, Il

Posts: 806
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MHeavNC View Post
Noticed this list on the 3 Series forum... Do I need to get the new screws and vent hose??


11617559523 Intake Manifold
11617559530 Vent Hose
11617579114 Adjustor Unit
11617560538 Adjustor Unit 2
11617547242 Gasket set
11617535849 x5 Screw 50x20
11617535850 x2 Screw 50x35
11617535851 x1 Screw 50x66

Also, for those who have made the swap and still running the stock tune,...... how is it running??? Does it seem that your ECU is slowly adapting,..... somewhat??


Hey their sorry haven't been on much as of late been busy .... I used everything my car had their was no extra parts needed .... The vent hose is if you break yours.

As far as stock tune its driving just fine with the three stage and as you will read from others have seen nothing but improvements.

I am however sending an SI ecu with my I ecu to have it converted over whitch will land me proper si HP and performance even an si tune will yeild better performance from the stock si tuning so in theory I should finally meet my goal of having the same HP if not more than a stock si ..... Combine that with the better rear end gear ratio in the I and better yet in the auto I should pull very nicely indeed...ill keep you posted.
-c- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2011, 03:41 AM   #65
Stilweezy
Not new, not old
 
Drives: 2003 Z4 3.0i Sterling Gray
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 28
iTrader: (0)

so this mod is only for 06-08 3.0i, not for 03 3.0i since we have a different engine?
Stilweezy is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2011, 09:16 PM   #66
-c-
Captain
 
Drives: Z4 3.0I, MINI cooper S, 135IS
Join Date: May 2010
Location: wheaton, Il

Posts: 806
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwell View Post
so this mod is only for 06-08 3.0i, not for 03 3.0i since we have a different engine?
yes only for the N52 based engines.
-c- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:19 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST